uucrook3d wrote:ok well this isnt fun anymore. after spending about an hour looking for possible suitors for manny. that contract is impossible. mathias.... sorry man, youre trumped. he might get traded but it is gonna be hard as all get out.
that's all right, man. before this whole contract nonsense started, i had one point i was trying to make and have been trying to make througout: the red sox would never trade manny ramirez unless they were getting an elite player in return.
But that isn't true. If the Red Sox wanted to trade Manny, it would only be for a salary dump, unless they agreed to pay most of his contract. Otherwise, they would not expect much of anything in return, except extreme financial relief.
and something that got lost in the shuffle is that if the sox could unload manny and know *for a certainty* that they would be able to get another elite player with the money, then they would do it. the problem is that not many of those players exist, quite frankly. it's easy to say, "well, they could afford players X, Y, & Z for the money they pay manny." it's harder to actually get players X, Y, & Z into your clubhouse.
No it isn't. Not with free agency. Vlad, Sheffield, Beltran are all among the biggest names in the game of baseball and they were all free agents within the last 2 years. I'm not saying the Red Sox could get Vladimir. What I'm saying is there are huge free agents, some bigger than Manny on the market every single year, making half his salary. It's not like there is crap on the FA market each season. There is always a huge name or two or three or more. The Red Sox could get a player like that, and still have half the money saved to spend on another player. I never said they could or needed to go get Vlad.
if, for example, the sox offered to take vlade off of the angels' hands just for the offer of paying his salary, would the angels go along with it? not bloody likely. people talk about replacement players, but the reality is that very few of these players exist and it is awfully, awfully hard (or expensive) to get them onto your roster.
That's because Vlad and his contract aren't a burden to the Angels, or any other team for that matter. The money Vlad makes is equal or less to the going rate of a premier player. Manny's contract far exceeds the going rate. Therefore, Manny is a burden to move. If the Angels put Vlad on waivers, he'd be snatched up in a second. But 29 teams can look at Manny Ramirez, a very comparable player, and pass on him, because he's making a ridiculous amount of money.
And again, there are huge FAs on the market every single year. I never said the Red Sox would or should use the cash saved from a Manny trade to try to trade for a guy like Vlad. That obviously won't work, teams don't want to give those guys up. What they do, is use the 22 million dollars on two or more free agents to help the team. There are plenty of players that exist on the free agent market that can be had by the Sox.
so i don't think the sox would unload manny for a bag full of baseballs just to get salary room; they would only do it under specific circumstances (when they tried to do it to get alex rodriguez, say). for them, manny's salary is not about the money: it's what the money can do for them.
But they already tried to get rid of him for nothing. They put him on waivers, and it was not to acquire A-Rod, because they needed Manny to acquire A-Rod. They put Manny on waivers, because Theo Epstein is very much like Billy Beane, and realized that the ridiculous amount of money going to Ramirez could be used on several underpriced players, that could help the Red Sox more than Manny alone, ever could.
and although the discussion got more than a little bit off track, i still think that's accurate. so this idea that tomorrow, the sox would trade manny straight-up for a mediocre player without an additional, immediate plan to add back the quality of manny? not going to happen. they'll only trade manny if, in the same transaction, or one that is already lined up, they will have replaced manny's elite skills. and i think i'll leave it at that.
Again, I never said the Red Sox were going to trade Manny, or that it would be smart to do it in-season. I simply said that if Manny were going to be traded, a mediocre player would be the best they could expect. I never said that they would accept that at this point in time, because on July 27th, in the middle of a heated pennant race, trading your best player to save money is not the thing to do. It might be a very smart thing to do come November though, that's what I'm saying. But to do it now? No, I agree, it would serve no purpose because the saved money would do little good on the open market at this time.