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Postby blankman » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:31 pm

davidmarver wrote:Everyone's so quick to forget that Podsednik helps the AL team more than Jeter. Podsednik brings something to the table that the AL team doesn't have...Michael Young and Tejada are virtual equals to Jeter. The AL team has a better chance to win with :-] as the 32nd man instead of Jeter.


Dude that's your only argument for him.

The vote is for who should be an all-star, not who has one quality that could help the team. Tony Womack is just as fast as Pods, has 20 SB and has a better SB% than Pods, but you don't see anyone wanting him there "because he helps the AL team," despite inferior stats. That's not what the title All-Star is for. Its for the best players and both Tony Womack and Pods don't fit the bill for that.
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Postby davidmarver » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:37 pm

blankman wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Everyone's so quick to forget that Podsednik helps the AL team more than Jeter. Podsednik brings something to the table that the AL team doesn't have...Michael Young and Tejada are virtual equals to Jeter. The AL team has a better chance to win with :-] as the 32nd man instead of Jeter.


Dude that's your only argument for him.

The vote is for who should be an all-star, not who has one quality that could help the team. Tony Womack is just as fast as Pods, has 20 SB and has a better SB% than Pods, but you don't see anyone wanting him there "because he helps the AL team," despite inferior stats. That's not what the title All-Star is for. Its for the best players and both Tony Womack and Pods don't fit the bill for that.

So you concede that Podsednik is better for the AL team than Jeter, but you want Jeter there instead because he's the better player? Doesn't this go against your Soriano for Wang/Cano trade philosophy? You didn't want Soriano because Wang (pitching) helps the team more than Soriano would. Can't have it both ways. If Jeter was meant to be in the All-Star game he would be there.
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:42 pm

Carey Saders wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
Carey Saders wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:I have not read this entire thread but I have one question for Blank and any other Yankee fan complaining. Did you vote. If you did then you can say whatever you want. If you didn't vote then stop your complaining.


Yes. I voted for Jeter and Oswalt in all 25 of my ballots.

You can vote for more than 25.


If you have the time, you can.

This is why I've stopped watching shows like American Idol. It's unfair that people can vote multiple times. I know for a FACT that Jeter received more votes if everyone was only allowed to vote once. Ridiculous.


Not to nitpick here (well actually, precisely to nitpick), but how do you know this for a fact? I'm not saying I disagree, as I'm not really sure, but I'd like you to back this claim up, or not make one similar in the future. I'm not saying no such proof exists, either. If it does, I'd just like to see it.


Here's the evidence:
1) Pods beat out Jeter in a "close race" (according to MLB.com)
2) Jeter was actually ahead late on Wednesday so it was obviously close.
3) Pods won as a result of the Podsednik Plan (or whatever it's called).
4) Jeter fans and those who voted correctly figured that 10 or so votes would be adequate for the obvious choice to win.
5) Podsednik fans and those who voted poorly knew they better develop carpal tunnel real fast in order for Pods to possibly pinch run in the All-Star Game.

Sometimes "fact" means knowing something is true because it is.

If you want me to quote a source, here it is...

Carey Saders wrote:I know for a FACT that Jeter received more votes if everyone was only allowed to vote once. Ridiculous.


P.S. Let me make it perfectly clear that I'm a Braves fan with the Red Sox coming in 2nd on my list of favorite teams. I "hate" Jeter but I hate it even worse that he was shafted. He's on the freakin' All-Star Pin Ball commercial for crying out loud!


You'll have to excuse me, as I'm a Math teacher, and am going to look at this from a Logic standpoint. Now, assuming that premises 1) through 5) are all sound, true arguments, this claim is valid.

However, 4) is where a hole appears to me. How do we assume that people who voted for Jeter voted 10 times, or assumed that 10 times was adequate for the apparently not obvious choice? Who knows, maybe people did vote for Jeter 10 times, but how do we know this, or are we assuming?

I haven't heard of this Podsednik Plan, but I can only assume it was something put together in Chicago as an effort to get Podsednik into the All-Star game; successfully, no less. Given Chicago's track record of voting Nomar so heavily, etc. I have no issue believing this to be anything but true. However, New York is the same town that voted Carlos Beltran into the All-Star game, and Mike Piazza (who some, but not me, seem to take issue with) as well. Also the same town that had Tino Martinez leading over Mark Teixeira not too long ago, and is right up there with Chicago and St. Louis as far as All-Star Spamnation goes. So, what's good for the goose, no?

fact ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fkt)
n.
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
Law. The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.

As I said in my previous post, I'm not saying Jeter didn't deserve to go. I'm just saying, it's clearly not a fact, as everybody in the state of Illinois will probably tell you it's a 'fact' that Pods deserved it, and each is equally defensible. So, your 'fact' is about as solid as theirs, when in reality, they're both opinions, as is every vote submitted for the stupid should be exhibition.

I didn't assume you were a Yank and/or Jeter fan. Didn't mean to insinuate if I did indeed do that, either. And I find it quite funny that he's in the commercial, as a perennial All-Star :-b

If I'm voting, I give him the nod myself, though it's not a fact, by any means.
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Postby blankman » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:42 pm

davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Everyone's so quick to forget that Podsednik helps the AL team more than Jeter. Podsednik brings something to the table that the AL team doesn't have...Michael Young and Tejada are virtual equals to Jeter. The AL team has a better chance to win with :-] as the 32nd man instead of Jeter.


Dude that's your only argument for him.

The vote is for who should be an all-star, not who has one quality that could help the team. Tony Womack is just as fast as Pods, has 20 SB and has a better SB% than Pods, but you don't see anyone wanting him there "because he helps the AL team," despite inferior stats. That's not what the title All-Star is for. Its for the best players and both Tony Womack and Pods don't fit the bill for that.

So you concede that Podsednik is better for the AL team than Jeter, but you want Jeter there instead because he's the better player? Doesn't this go against your Soriano for Wang/Cano trade philosophy? You didn't want Soriano because Wang (pitching) helps the team more than Soriano would. Can't have it both ways. If Jeter was meant to be in the All-Star game he would be there.


I do not concede Pods being better for the team. He'd have the exact same effect of Tony Womack being there.

Bringing in a trade discussion that is about an actual baseball team and it's future to this discussion is possibly the largest leap you've ever made here and that's saying a lot.

All-stars: The best players. Pods is simply not one of them.

Actual baseball: age, salary, contract years, chemistry etc. All these things matter to actual teams. The All-Star team is nothing like a real team.

So yes, I can have it both ways and that is the way it is meant to be.
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Postby davidmarver » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:45 pm

blankman wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Everyone's so quick to forget that Podsednik helps the AL team more than Jeter. Podsednik brings something to the table that the AL team doesn't have...Michael Young and Tejada are virtual equals to Jeter. The AL team has a better chance to win with :-] as the 32nd man instead of Jeter.


Dude that's your only argument for him.

The vote is for who should be an all-star, not who has one quality that could help the team. Tony Womack is just as fast as Pods, has 20 SB and has a better SB% than Pods, but you don't see anyone wanting him there "because he helps the AL team," despite inferior stats. That's not what the title All-Star is for. Its for the best players and both Tony Womack and Pods don't fit the bill for that.

So you concede that Podsednik is better for the AL team than Jeter, but you want Jeter there instead because he's the better player? Doesn't this go against your Soriano for Wang/Cano trade philosophy? You didn't want Soriano because Wang (pitching) helps the team more than Soriano would. Can't have it both ways. If Jeter was meant to be in the All-Star game he would be there.


I do not concede Pods being better for the team. He'd have the exact same effect of Tony Womack being there.

Bringing in a trade discussion that is about an actual baseball team and it's future to this discussion is possibly the largest leap you've ever made here and that's saying a lot.

All-stars: The best players. Pods is simply not one of them.

Actual baseball: age, salary, contract years, chemistry etc. All these things matter to actual teams. The All-Star team is nothing like a real team.

So yes, I can have it both ways and that is the way it is meant to be.

Does Podsednik help the AL team more than Jeter? I want a yes/no answer.
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Postby bigh0rt » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:47 pm

davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Everyone's so quick to forget that Podsednik helps the AL team more than Jeter. Podsednik brings something to the table that the AL team doesn't have...Michael Young and Tejada are virtual equals to Jeter. The AL team has a better chance to win with :-] as the 32nd man instead of Jeter.


Dude that's your only argument for him.

The vote is for who should be an all-star, not who has one quality that could help the team. Tony Womack is just as fast as Pods, has 20 SB and has a better SB% than Pods, but you don't see anyone wanting him there "because he helps the AL team," despite inferior stats. That's not what the title All-Star is for. Its for the best players and both Tony Womack and Pods don't fit the bill for that.

So you concede that Podsednik is better for the AL team than Jeter, but you want Jeter there instead because he's the better player? Doesn't this go against your Soriano for Wang/Cano trade philosophy? You didn't want Soriano because Wang (pitching) helps the team more than Soriano would. Can't have it both ways. If Jeter was meant to be in the All-Star game he would be there.


I do not concede Pods being better for the team. He'd have the exact same effect of Tony Womack being there.

Bringing in a trade discussion that is about an actual baseball team and it's future to this discussion is possibly the largest leap you've ever made here and that's saying a lot.

All-stars: The best players. Pods is simply not one of them.

Actual baseball: age, salary, contract years, chemistry etc. All these things matter to actual teams. The All-Star team is nothing like a real team.

So yes, I can have it both ways and that is the way it is meant to be.

Does Podsednik help the AL team more than Jeter? I want a yes/no answer.


I really don't see this as a factor for the All-Star selection process, nor do I think Podsednik helps the AL more than Jeter. So, this gets a 'No' from me.
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Postby blankman » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:53 pm

davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
blankman wrote:
davidmarver wrote:Everyone's so quick to forget that Podsednik helps the AL team more than Jeter. Podsednik brings something to the table that the AL team doesn't have...Michael Young and Tejada are virtual equals to Jeter. The AL team has a better chance to win with :-] as the 32nd man instead of Jeter.


Dude that's your only argument for him.

The vote is for who should be an all-star, not who has one quality that could help the team. Tony Womack is just as fast as Pods, has 20 SB and has a better SB% than Pods, but you don't see anyone wanting him there "because he helps the AL team," despite inferior stats. That's not what the title All-Star is for. Its for the best players and both Tony Womack and Pods don't fit the bill for that.

So you concede that Podsednik is better for the AL team than Jeter, but you want Jeter there instead because he's the better player? Doesn't this go against your Soriano for Wang/Cano trade philosophy? You didn't want Soriano because Wang (pitching) helps the team more than Soriano would. Can't have it both ways. If Jeter was meant to be in the All-Star game he would be there.


I do not concede Pods being better for the team. He'd have the exact same effect of Tony Womack being there.

Bringing in a trade discussion that is about an actual baseball team and it's future to this discussion is possibly the largest leap you've ever made here and that's saying a lot.

All-stars: The best players. Pods is simply not one of them.

Actual baseball: age, salary, contract years, chemistry etc. All these things matter to actual teams. The All-Star team is nothing like a real team.

So yes, I can have it both ways and that is the way it is meant to be.

Does Podsednik help the AL team more than Jeter? I want a yes/no answer.


No. And that's not a question that has any relevance on who deserves to be an All-Star. Again, Tony Womack would have the same effect as Pods on this game.

I answered your quesiton, so now please answer mine and do us a favor and give us all a nice laugh by attempting to justify your Soriano for Cano and Wang analogy.
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Postby Matthias » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:57 pm

blankman wrote:No. And that's not a question that has any relevance on who deserves to be an All-Star.


Right: the relavent question is, who do the fans want to see more. And apparently the answer isn't jeet-jeet-skadeet.
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Postby Carey Saders » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:02 pm

bigh0rt wrote:You'll have to excuse me, as I'm a Math teacher, and am going to look at this from a Logic standpoint. Now, assuming that premises 1) through 5) are all sound, true arguments, this claim is valid.


Of course, you are right. My post was intended to be emotionally thundered in a juvenille sort of way. Just the mood I was in. 'Twas not intended to be logical.

Admit it. You grinned when you saw I had quoted myself.

Funnily enough, I failed college algebra so had to get tutored. I went on to marry the gal who tutored me. So just like Jeter, I hate math but appreciate what it can do. ;-D
Last edited by Carey Saders on Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby blankman » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:03 pm

Matthias wrote:
blankman wrote:No. And that's not a question that has any relevance on who deserves to be an All-Star.


Right: the relavent question is, who do the fans want to see more. And apparently the answer isn't jeet-jeet-skadeet.


That's not even necessarily true because you're allowed to vote as many times as you want. One person alone could account for at least 1000 votes over the period on his own.

Now if you could stop cherry-picking posts and post something useful that'd be great ;-D Also check your PM box. I sent you something last night.
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