moochman wrote:beltrans_boy wrote:It's as simple as that, folks. Precedent was set with Pete Rose. He broke the rules of baseball, thus he's not allowed in the HoF. That should be the standard by which all ballplayers are judged.
That's incorrect, the standard by which all ballplayers are judged is their numbers. Hit over 3,000 hits = in. Win over 300 games = in. Hit over 500 HRs = in. And there's the rub. HR numbers have been artificially inflated during the steroid era. Sosa, Bonds, And McLiar are the figureheads of MLB's tainted monter mashers.
Bonds is a lock to be a first ballot HOFer. He has put up the numbers worthy of one of the best players ever. And that is prior to him disgracing himself. Barry won 3 MVP awards as a stick figure. His credentials are solid and beyond reproach.
Mark McLiar, however, is a different story. Here we have the case of a player who prior to cheating was never going to be mentioned in the same breath as the HOF. His injuries alone would have prevented him from playing enough to put up the numbers needed. I would hope that the voters would take that into consideration when they vote. Even if they feel that both are lying and have deceived baseball, themselves, and the fans, they must remember who is the fraud and who is a HOFer.
Throw McLiar to the curb, but Bonds earned his place.
I think it IS as simple as that, though. Based on raw numbers, Rose should have been voted into the HoF years ago. He's not allowed in because he broke the rules of the game. I don't care what kind of #'s players put up, if it is PROVEN that they cheated at ANY point in their career, they should be denied admission into the hall. I don't care what kind of career numbers they put up before or after they cheated. Baseball needs to protect itself, and promoting cheating by admitting cheaters into the Hall is not the way to do it.
That being said, as of right now, there is no CONCLUSIVE evidence that Bonds or McGwire cheated during their careers. We have to assume that their numbers are naturally obtained and that they never broke the rules of MLB. So I say, let them in. If it comes out later that they knowingly cheated the game of baseball, then don't let them in. That's the criterion which I'd use to judge Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Giambi or anybody else in Major League Baseball.