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Phatferd wrote:Anyway, my point is moneyball has not won anything since it has become a "way of management." Yes, the A's have been successful in the regular season, but when the playoffs come around they don't do well. I couldn't tell you why because the strange thing is that their teams were built for the playoffs, based on their rotation. They had 3 studs to pitch in a short series and could never get it done.
Take the Twins for example, very similar salary situations and they get it done just as well if not better than the A's. Yes, they play in a very weak division but they have made it to the ALCS at least.
CubsFan7724 wrote:I did nothing to insult your intelligence, so why did you feel the need to flame me? I know what park effects are, and I never said park effects were teams building around their park. So thanks for putting words in my mouth. How do you adjust for park effects, anyways? Can you explain? Id like to see.
Park effects are real and you cant ignore them when determining a offense. Many teams offenses are built to take advantage of the park. So when you take that away, it makes a team look better or worse than they are in real life.
Phatferd wrote:Buddy, I don't know what your problem is, but I didn't make it personal with you, so why did you make it personal? If the only way you can win an argument is to resort to name calling then you have more issues to deal with. Name calling is for 6 year olds, not adults. I didn't question your intelligence, I have more respect for people on here than to resort to that kind of crap. This is a discussion board and I don't mind debate, I enjoy talking baseball, but I don't come on here to get into childish arguments. I prefer the adult type where we can go back and forth and bring good dialogue to the table.
Back to the discussion, If you read a little more into my argument and I know you are smart enough to do that because you make good arguments. I don't agree with your argument, but they have merit. You will notice that my whole argument is that I do not buy into the park effect theory, so telling me I do not understand park effect is a mute point, because I do not agree with it.
It's like telling a women to understand what it feels like to be a man and vice versa no one will ever know the opposites feelings. One reason I don't agree with it is because of a reason I am about to explain. You say that we have to grade numbers on an even field or according to park effects, whatever. I say this, you can always take an OK hitter and make him an above average hitter (production wise) by putting him in Coors, Ameriquest and Citizens Bank. However, on the flip side you have a guy like Beltre last year who did what he did in a very difficult park to hit in. Are you saying that if he were in Coors last year he would have hit 360 with 65 HR and 170 RBI?I do not think so. He may have hit a little better but you can't really get much better than that. So park's to me play a part, but not in the overall value of your team. A good team will win a majority of their games on the road and a majority at home. My point is you have to look at your own stadium to evaluate your team.
Anyway, I just don't buy into the theory. I may not be right, but I just do not buy into those kind of theories (for the most part). It doesn't mean I am less intelligent. It just means I do not support your way of thinking for my personal self.
tlef316 wrote:3) He hasnt won a playoff series. Im not saying that moneyball cant win a playoff series, but its very dificult to annoint beane some kind of genius when his teams havent gotten past the first round. the twins have done it. so have the marlins
His system didnt even produce a playoff win when he had the big 3, chavez, giambi, tejada, a healthy dye, johnny damon and isringhausen. this speaks volumes in my eyes.
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