League Rules Discussion

Will these owners build for the future, or will they play to win it all this season?
BronXBombers51
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:25 am
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Roster Information: [quote]12 Teams - 6x6 (Normal plus OPS & Losses) - Rotisserie - 4 to 8 keepers per year

*denotes keeper

C- Brian McCann
1B- Billy Butler
2B- Omar Infante
3B- Miguel Cabrera*
SS- Troy Tulowitzki*
OF- Andrew McCutchen*
OF- Nelson Cruz
OF- Carl Crawford
Utl- Pablo Sandoval*
Utl- Norichika Aoki

B- Nick Markakis, Kendrys Morales, Denard Span, Neil Walker, Evan Gattis

DL- Ian Kinsler*

SP- Felix Hernandez*, Yu Darvish*, Yovani Gallardo*, Jonathon Niese, Marco Estrada

RP- Addison Reed, Casey Janssen, Edward Mujica, David Robertson, Luke Gregerson

DL- Alexi Ogando
[/quote]

Re: League Rules Discussion

Post by BronXBombers51 »

The Artful Dodger wrote:
thedude wrote:I personally don't like the idea of seperate RF, LF, CF spots. If we wanted to have more starters we could make it more traditional and have C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, OF, OF, OF, OF, OF, 1B/3B, 2B,SS Utl, SP, SP, SP, SP, SP, RP, RP, P, P. That would make it a little tougher.


Yeah, I don't like the LF/CF/RF idea much.


Yeah, I'm getting the impression that this isn't too popular. The CI/MI/Utl instead of 3 Utl seems to be a common idea though. I'll probably put a lot of these items up for poll. I personally like the OF/OF/OF/CI/MI/Utl plan, though.

BronXBombers51 wrote:Option #1: All FA-to-be are considered free agents and you can match any/all of their offers if you so choose.

Option #2: You must declare 1 or 2 FA-to-be as your RFA by December 1st. You may then match their offers if you so choose.

Option #3: A mixture of options #1 and #2....you don't have to declare specific free agents on December 1st, but there is a limit as to how many you can 'match' in the auction.


I like Option 3. I don't have to declare a RFA automatically, but there's a limit to matching offers (I propose 2 RFA's). So, if I was mulling over designating 2 of my 4 FA's as RFA's during the auction, this would give me flexibility to know who I'd like to match and if I can feasibly do so.


Another thing that will likely be put to a vote, but I like this idea as well.

The only other thing I'd like to mention....you can still bid on your RFA as if he were any other free agent. That is to say...if YOU win the bid on your own RFA after 7 days...he's yours and that doesn't count as a 'match.' Basically what RFA allows you to do is see what the going rate on that player is based on the other teams in the league without involving yourself in the bidding war....then you can decide if the contract is fair enough for you and match it after the final bid has been made. But nothing prevents you from going out and bidding on all of your RFA if you so choose.

Just wanted to point that out, because I don't think I ever clarified that.

As for minor leaguers:

-I don't think we should have a 5 prospect minimum at all times. This could inhibit some flexibility I have in pushing forward on a deal. So, if I traded 2 out of my 5 minor leaguers for a major leaguer and had the means to do so, then this deal would be null and void, really.

-If a minor leaguer reaches his AB/IP limit, can you wait until Dec. 1 to make a decision to sign or release to FA? I think the owner has the right to release a prospect or sign to a contract. If it's the latter, someone on the MLB roster will have to be dropped.


Excellent point about the minimum. I'm leaning towards scrapping that idea as well. In addition, what if you're carrying 7 minor leaguers and 3 of them reach the AB/IP limits during the season...you'd then be forced to either offer them a contract or release them and put yourself below the minimum. I don't like the minimum...getting rid of it.

If your minor leaguer reaches his AB/IP limit you CAN wait until Dec. 1st to make a decision. You do NOT have to activate him if he is activated in real life. You can leave him on your minor league roster all season if you so choose. But if he does surpass those AB/IP limits, you must decide by Dec. 1st whether to offer him a contract (or release him....which seems to be another popular thought so far.)

As far as dropping someone on the MLB roster to make room....I guess yeah. I mean, you can't go over the 25 player roster limit. So if you already have 25 contracted players, you either have to drop one and assume their debt, or just release your minor league player to the FA pool.
BronXBombers51
T-Ball Trainer
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:25 am
Beginner: No
Roster Information: [quote]12 Teams - 6x6 (Normal plus OPS & Losses) - Rotisserie - 4 to 8 keepers per year

*denotes keeper

C- Brian McCann
1B- Billy Butler
2B- Omar Infante
3B- Miguel Cabrera*
SS- Troy Tulowitzki*
OF- Andrew McCutchen*
OF- Nelson Cruz
OF- Carl Crawford
Utl- Pablo Sandoval*
Utl- Norichika Aoki

B- Nick Markakis, Kendrys Morales, Denard Span, Neil Walker, Evan Gattis

DL- Ian Kinsler*

SP- Felix Hernandez*, Yu Darvish*, Yovani Gallardo*, Jonathon Niese, Marco Estrada

RP- Addison Reed, Casey Janssen, Edward Mujica, David Robertson, Luke Gregerson

DL- Alexi Ogando
[/quote]

Re: League Rules Discussion

Post by BronXBombers51 »

Broncmet724 wrote:I'd rather keep the 3 OF. As far as changing 2 of the UTIL slots, what about a 1B/3B, 2B/SS?


Again, looks like a popular opinion. I'll likely put this one up for vote.

Question here. Would an actual player take a 3/$10 or a 1/$11 contract?


It really depends, but you need to have some sort of trump. The Hot Stove League used annual dollars as the trump and it worked out fine. For reference:

3/$10 can be beat by 1/$11 can be beat by 2/$11

Dollars trump everything, but if the dollars are equal, # of years trump.

I don't think we should designate who our RFA's might be, and I don't think you should have a limit set on how many you can keep. You'll be limited enough by years and dollars in my opinion.


Yeah, this one will go up for a vote. I am scrapping the 5-player Minor League minimum idea.

If you've activated him, unless for injury purposes, you should have to offer him a contract in my opinion.


What does everyone else feel on this? If you call-up a minor leaguer mid-season and he surpasses the AB/IP limits, should you be forced to offer him a contract by Dec. 1st? Or can he be released like any other FA? I would lead towards the latter, but I'll see what everyone wants to do.

I think if you want before the draft you should be able to release any minor leaguer. I don't think we should allow it during the year.


Yeah, another point that needs to be addressed. Can we just cut minor leaguers loose on Dec. 1st even if they've reached no AB/IP limits....simply to make room for the Minor League Draft?
thomasps3
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Re: League Rules Discussion

Post by thomasps3 »

After reflecting on this rule:
7.) Minor league players are a trade-able commodity provided the teams do not exceed the 10 player max or fall below the 5 player minimum. (Again, not sure about the 5 player minimum.)

I think that this could be a problem. Here is how:

Team 'X' is out of it come the ALL-Star break 2009, and wants to trade off 2 players that it signed to 1 year contracts, and the GM figures the best way to do this is through the obtaining of minor league players. Given that he has a full complement of 10 players already, it may impinge on his bargaining ability if Team 'Y' knows he can only keep 10 players. This puts Team 'X' at a competiive disadvantage in 2010 in theory because his minor players must be released in order to be compliant with the 10 player max. I think there should be no max, or perhaps a "soft" maximum, kind of akin to the NBA soft salary cap

Addiitonally, on the flip side, here is a scenario:
2009 ALL Star break
You are in 3rd place, and want to trade for Albert Pujols and Jon Papelbon because your closers went down with injuries but your team has held up andin order to win the league. Your most valuable trading chips are these guys:
Jay Bruce
Gorkys Hernnadez
Matt Wieters
Matt Moustakas
Jacob McGee
You have already made one minor deal earlier in the year, and the owners of these two guys want those studs that you drafted in the MiLB Draft as compensation. Here's the conundrum: You can't make the deal to win the league because your roster will now have less than the required 5 players on the farm.

Thoughts?
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thedude
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Roster Information: "This year I'm told that the team did well because one pitcher had a fine curve ball. I understand that a curve ball is thrown with a deliberate attempt to deceive. Surely that is not an ability we should want to foster at Harvard."Charles Eliot
"Professional athletes should not be role models. Hell, I know drug dealers who can dunk. Can drug dealers be role models?"-Charles Barkley

"Heroes and cowards feel exactly the same fear. Heroes just react to it differently."

"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.

Re: League Rules Discussion

Post by thedude »

If we want to use the CI and MI spots then we really have to add at least 1 extra OF spot to the starters otherwise Infielders hold more value than OFers.


As far as minor leaguers go, we should probably not have a min. You should be able to release a minor leaguer if you want to, you should be forced to offer him a contract. just like MLB no tendering the contracts of arbitration eligible players. Therefore if a guy came up through your minor league system, you do not have to offer him a contract for the upcoming season if you do not want to.
BronXBombers51
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Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:25 am
Beginner: No
Roster Information: [quote]12 Teams - 6x6 (Normal plus OPS & Losses) - Rotisserie - 4 to 8 keepers per year

*denotes keeper

C- Brian McCann
1B- Billy Butler
2B- Omar Infante
3B- Miguel Cabrera*
SS- Troy Tulowitzki*
OF- Andrew McCutchen*
OF- Nelson Cruz
OF- Carl Crawford
Utl- Pablo Sandoval*
Utl- Norichika Aoki

B- Nick Markakis, Kendrys Morales, Denard Span, Neil Walker, Evan Gattis

DL- Ian Kinsler*

SP- Felix Hernandez*, Yu Darvish*, Yovani Gallardo*, Jonathon Niese, Marco Estrada

RP- Addison Reed, Casey Janssen, Edward Mujica, David Robertson, Luke Gregerson

DL- Alexi Ogando
[/quote]

Re: League Rules Discussion

Post by BronXBombers51 »

thomasps3,

You bring up a very good point. I like the idea of a soft-cap. You can go over the 10-player cap in-season (so you can make deals at the deadline to improve your team) but by December 1st, you must pare back to the 10-player limit by releasing whatever minor leaguers that you don't want. There will be no minimum requirement.

Does everyone like this idea?

thedude wrote:If we want to use the CI and MI spots then we really have to add at least 1 extra OF spot to the starters otherwise Infielders hold more value than OFers.


As far as minor leaguers go, we should probably not have a min. You should be able to release a minor leaguer if you want to, you should be forced to offer him a contract. just like MLB no tendering the contracts of arbitration eligible players. Therefore if a guy came up through your minor league system, you do not have to offer him a contract for the upcoming season if you do not want to.


I agree.

The Hot Stove used 5 OF spots, CI, MI, Utl and that was a 16-team league. For a 12-14 team league, I think 5 OF spots is very do-able. Most real MLB teams carry 2 extra OF, and an extra CI and MI. Utl is like a DH. I think that makes the roster set more complete.

As far as pitchers go, should we change it around to something that's more standard? I put 5 SP because I wanted to make it as close to a real MLB team as possible. All MLB teams use a 5-man starting rotation. By having 5 SP spots, you're forced to field at least that many SPs and can't load up on a bunch of RPs, which is unrealistic in a real-life setting, yet common in fantasy baseball. This will eliminate that.

C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, OF, OF, OF, OF, OF, CI, MI, Utl, SP, SP, SP, SP, SP, RP, RP, P, P with 5 bench and DL spots. Anyone have issues with this?

I also agree with your point on releasing minor league players. It works well with thomasps3's soft-cap idea as well.

I'm going to make some changes to the rulebook to simply update what we've come up with so far (changes will be made in blue.) These are still not final, so if anyone has any suggestions or concerns, feel free to post.

Not everyone has even checked in so far, so I'm sure we'll have plenty more debate on these issues.
Broncmet724
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Re: League Rules Discussion

Post by Broncmet724 »

With a 12 team league I don't think it's a bad idea for us to keep 5 OFs. That's the top 60 OFs. There are 30 teams, right? brain slow, 3 starting OFs. So 90 OFs. So we'd be using 66% of baseball's OFs. :-o :-? There are 30 starting 1B, 2B, SS, 3B. We're talking of using 42 out of a possible 60, so that's 70% of CI and MI. That's brings the percentages a bit closer like Thedude pointed out. 5 SP won't be bad
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thedude
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Roster Information: "This year I'm told that the team did well because one pitcher had a fine curve ball. I understand that a curve ball is thrown with a deliberate attempt to deceive. Surely that is not an ability we should want to foster at Harvard."Charles Eliot
"Professional athletes should not be role models. Hell, I know drug dealers who can dunk. Can drug dealers be role models?"-Charles Barkley

"Heroes and cowards feel exactly the same fear. Heroes just react to it differently."

"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.

Re: League Rules Discussion

Post by thedude »

If we choose to keep a minor leaguer for 1 year, IMO we should not be forced to keep him for the full 6 years. We should be able to "non-tender" him after each year, which would make him a free agent. This is similar to what MLB teams do (ex: the Twins with David Ortiz).


Also we could have a "rule-five draft," so instead of being forced to release or promote prospects who lost their prospect status but are still on our minor league squads, we make those player available to the rest of the league in a "rule 5 draft." The rule five players have to remain on the other teams roster for the whole season or be returned to the original team. Just an idea.
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thedude
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Roster Information: "This year I'm told that the team did well because one pitcher had a fine curve ball. I understand that a curve ball is thrown with a deliberate attempt to deceive. Surely that is not an ability we should want to foster at Harvard."Charles Eliot
"Professional athletes should not be role models. Hell, I know drug dealers who can dunk. Can drug dealers be role models?"-Charles Barkley

"Heroes and cowards feel exactly the same fear. Heroes just react to it differently."

"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.

Re: League Rules Discussion

Post by thedude »

thedude wrote:

Also we could have a "rule-five draft," so instead of being forced to release or promote prospects who lost their prospect status but are still on our minor league squads, we make those player available to the rest of the league in a "rule 5 draft." The rule five players have to remain on the other teams roster for the whole season or be returned to the original team. Just an idea.



Actually, on rereading this. I think this is a stupid idea. Never mind. :-B
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