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CD Buring Time Limit

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CD Buring Time Limit

Postby BigMusky » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:13 pm

I question came up that I did not know the answer too and a quick google search did not answer it for me.

When burning music files to a CDR, why is there a time limit? I rip my music at 64kbps, so some files are only 1.5mb. I could fit a whole lot more songs then 80 minutes on a CDR that holds 700MB.

Is there anyway around this? I read something that even if you get around this, your CD player probably would not read it anyway. What gives? Is this a technical restraint due to speed of the disc or temp, or just the Greedy ass music industry's iron fist?
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Re: CD Buring Time Limit

Postby slomo007 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:16 pm

Good question. To be honest, I'm not sure but I'll take a stab. CD players spin the discs at the same speed, and have to read the data at the same speed, so I would assume that if you burn 64 kbps songs, it's just spreading the data out over more area on music discs...rather than putting them all in one joint cluster where they could fit.

Again though, that's just a logical guess...I'm not really sure.... :-?
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Postby BigMusky » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:18 pm

So you think that the 1.5MB file is actually taking up more space on the CD?
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Postby slomo007 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:20 pm

BigMusky wrote:So you think that the 1.5MB file is actually taking up more space on the CD?


On a music CD, yeah, that's what I would think. It would spread the data out so that the laser could read it consecutively. Maybe anyways?
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Postby acsguitar » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:25 pm

This is a good question I always thought about that...let me see if i can find out...I assume it has to do with the fact that Wav files at a certain frequency are all the same size... Therefore It most likely burns those files to your CD at say 128k or whatever Hz is measured it... Now the original quality of the song could be bad or good but I assume that the write to the disc is actually in one quality...so basically it uses the same space even if the song has worse quality... something like that maybee ill check it out.

So maybee somethign like this.
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Postby acsguitar » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:28 pm

This might help but maybee not


Subject: [3-8] How do I write more than 80 minutes of audio or 700MB of data?
(2004/03/04)
CD-R's have a pre-formed spiral track, and the sector addresses are hard-coded into CD-R media, so there's no flexibility. Every disc holds a predetermined amount of data.

Most discs rated at 74 or 80 minutes hold slightly more than that. How much more depends on the brand of media, batch of media, and perhaps even on the recorder used (see section (7-6) for more details on how much a CD-R can hold). In some situations you can exceed the stated capacity of the disc; see section (3-8-3) below.

Since CDs are written in a spiral, the amount of data you can get on a disc is affected by how tightly spaced the "groove" is. A standard Red Book audio CD or Yellow Book CD-ROM is designed to allow at most 74 minutes of data. By using a tighter track pitch on the spiral "groove" on the glass master, manufacturers can get more data onto the disc. In theory this could make it harder for some CD readers to use the discs. See section (3-8-1) for notes on 80-minute discs, and (3-8-2) for 90- and 99-minute blanks.

The easiest way to get more data onto a disc is not to try. For audio CDs, you can leave off one or two tracks that you're not overly fond of. For data CDs you may be able to drop some images or sample data. The most common problem people encounter with data CDs is trying to copy them as a collection of files rather than doing a bulk copy of the entire disc. See also section (3-24).

One user suggested using the "speed up" function of Sound Forge or Cool Edit to increase the speed of extracted WAV files by 3%. This supposedly gives better results than resampling, and allows writing 77 minutes of audio onto a 74-minute disc.

If you have a mono recording, you could double the length of a CD by recording half the sound on the left track and half on the right. The sound would be recorded as two monaural files, and then merged into a single stereo file with a sound editor like Cool Edit. (With Cool Edit 96: load first mono file. Use "Convert Sample Type" to convert to Stereo. Select the right track, and Delete Selection. Use Mix Paste to load the right track from the second file, or just fire up a second copy of Cool Edit with the other track, and use Copy and Paste commands.) The person playing the CD back will need to use a "balance" knob to select the left or right track. One issue with this method is that the track markers apply to both tracks, so providing random access to specific sections can be tricky.

If you're trying to copy a CD-ROM or VideoCD and running out of room, you may have a different problem. See sections (3-24) and (4-25).

Incidentally, don't get confused when you discover you have 700MB of audio extracted from a CD that only holds 650MB. Audio sectors use 2352 bytes per sector, while standard CD-ROM data uses 2048 (the rest is for error correction). You can put roughly 747MB of audio onto a disc that only holds 650MB of data.
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:40 pm

acsguitar wrote:If you have a mono recording, you could double the length of a CD by recording half the sound on the left track and half on the right. The sound would be recorded as two monaural files, and then merged into a single stereo file with a sound editor like Cool Edit. (With Cool Edit 96: load first mono file. Use "Convert Sample Type" to convert to Stereo. Select the right track, and Delete Selection. Use Mix Paste to load the right track from the second file, or just fire up a second copy of Cool Edit with the other track, and use Copy and Paste commands.) The person playing the CD back will need to use a "balance" knob to select the left or right track. One issue with this method is that the track markers apply to both tracks, so providing random access to specific sections can be tricky.


Wow that's a great idea... I don't know if I'd be able to figure out how to do it, and my discman doesn't have "balance", but it looks like it opens up possibilities to fit tons of songs on a CD. Of course, you could always just make an MP3 CD and fit way more on, but most CD players don't play MP3's.

As for the original question... I'm pretty sure you can only burn 80 minutes, no matter how big the files are.
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Postby acsguitar » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:51 pm

LBJackal wrote:
acsguitar wrote:If you have a mono recording, you could double the length of a CD by recording half the sound on the left track and half on the right. The sound would be recorded as two monaural files, and then merged into a single stereo file with a sound editor like Cool Edit. (With Cool Edit 96: load first mono file. Use "Convert Sample Type" to convert to Stereo. Select the right track, and Delete Selection. Use Mix Paste to load the right track from the second file, or just fire up a second copy of Cool Edit with the other track, and use Copy and Paste commands.) The person playing the CD back will need to use a "balance" knob to select the left or right track. One issue with this method is that the track markers apply to both tracks, so providing random access to specific sections can be tricky.


Wow that's a great idea... I don't know if I'd be able to figure out how to do it, and my discman doesn't have "balance", but it looks like it opens up possibilities to fit tons of songs on a CD. Of course, you could always just make an MP3 CD and fit way more on, but most CD players don't play MP3's.

As for the original question... I'm pretty sure you can only burn 80 minutes, no matter how big the files are.


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Postby blankman » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:25 pm

LBJackal wrote:As for the original question... I'm pretty sure you can only burn 80 minutes, no matter how big the files are.


Right. 80 minutes is 80 minutes. If you want to fit more on you can make an MP3 CD which holds tons of music. The problem though lies in whether your CD player can play MP3 CD's. I know my car's doesn't and its a 2004.
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Postby BigMusky » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:52 pm

The stereo in question is MP3 compatable, so how do you make an MP3 CD and how many more songs can it hold?
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