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ground ballpitcher with good defensive infeilds

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Postby kariya9 » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:41 pm

I would have said lowe and every other dodger pitcher last year but they lost 3/4 of there infield. All played at gold glove levels. Kent, Choi and Jo. Valentin are horrible glove men and have limited range. Expect alot of unearn run in the future of all dodger pitchers. As for pitcher i do like, any groundball pitcher on seattle, st louis, angels , and marlins should have better than average infield defense behind them.

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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:42 pm

rlee wrote:Why would Lowe fall into this category with what proposes to be a very porous Dodger infield? Choi, 1B ... Kent 2B ...
Valentin 3B??? :-o I hope Cesar Izturis has a lot more range than we think he does. :-[ This infield stinks. Lowe throwing all of those groundballs that will elude 3/4 of the infield. :-/


The original question was about which groundball pitchers will have improved defenses behind them. And, believe it or not, the Dodger's IF is better defensively than Millar, Bellhorn, Cabrera/Nomar, Mueller. And the park/league is clearly better.
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Postby rlee » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:00 pm

Absolutely Adequate wrote:
rlee wrote:Why would Lowe fall into this category with what proposes to be a very porous Dodger infield? Choi, 1B ... Kent 2B ...
Valentin 3B??? :-o I hope Cesar Izturis has a lot more range than we think he does. :-[ This infield stinks. Lowe throwing all of those groundballs that will elude 3/4 of the infield. :-/


The original question was about which groundball pitchers will have improved defenses behind them. And, believe it or not, the Dodger's IF is better defensively than Millar, Bellhorn, Cabrera/Nomar, Mueller. And the park/league is clearly better.


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We may have to agree to disagree on this. I think the Dodger defense this year may prove to have less range and to be more porous than the Sox last year. That's why I answered the post the way I did. Just my opinion :-B
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Postby mtarail » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:07 pm

xeifrank wrote:Lowe and Webb are the two most extreme ground ball pitchers in all of baseball, and they dwarf any and all other active pitchers in this realm. Webb did not change teams though, he is still with Arizona. Derek Lowe went to the Dodgers, and he has a very good infield behind him except for Choi at 1B. Not only is Lowe an extreme GB pitcher, but he also does not tend to give up too many HRs. This combined with the fact that Dodgers stadium does not give up very many ground ball doubles and triples have people wandering just how good Lowe might be, pitching in Chavez Ravine. They did shrink the foul ball territory but that shouldn't have much of an effect on such an extreme gb pitcher like Lowe.

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Webb is the guy that I was thinking of. IMO he's got a lot more upside than Lowe. Webb hasn't changed teams, but this years D-Back infield is completely different than last year, and is purported to be better defensively. Cintron and Gonzalez are the only guys in the whole defensive lineup from last year that will be starting. Heck, with Counsell at 2B Cintron may not even start. So for defensive purposes Webb is playing with pretty much a brand new (and improved) team.
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Postby LBJackal » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:20 pm

xeifrank wrote:They did shrink the foul ball territory but that shouldn't have much of an effect on such an extreme gb pitcher like Lowe.


Right, he doesn't give up a lot of pop-outs in foul territory so maybe shrinking the foul territory woudn't help him... but that also means he loses the only benefit Dodger Stadium has for pitchers; the big foul territory. It actually inflates HR's while Fenway suppresses HR's. So I don't know why people think it will help him very much to move to Chavez Ravine. He also doesn't have Beltre or Cora on the IF, who were 2 main reasons why the Dodgers's IF was great. They have Izturis left but that's it. Kent, Valentin, and Choi won't help him very much. I don't like this move to LA nearly as much as most people. Brandon Webb on the other hand, is due for a huge year IMO.
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