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Sheets vs. Santana

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Postby Mugwump » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:47 am

Slotting Sheets as a #2 may have been a slight exaggeration to make a point. I was just trying to get across that with his hype many will pay too much for him. Personally, I would rather wait a few rounds and draft a better value.
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Postby Scooter1027 » Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:13 am

Bloody Nipples wrote:How is Sheets a #2 pitcher? He is an ace, and a stud one at that. I would much rather have Sheets in the second round than Santana in the first. Here's why:

Santana absolutely sucked in the beginning of the year last year, to the point where many fools dropped him. Then he went on the most unbelievable streak I have ever heard about. There is absolutely no way he repeats his second half over a full year. I think he will post numbers worse than his second half, but much better than his first half. That puts him solidly in the first round, but there is also the risk that he could pitch poorly like he did before his amazing run.

Sheets can be had about one round later, and will post very similar numbers across the board. The only cat they will differ much in is wins. And in keeper leagues, I think Sheets' wins will only increase as that great farm-system in Milwaukee grows up. Also, Sheets was pretty consistent through all of last year. And you cant ignore that insane K/BB ratio.


I agree with this 100% ;-D
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Postby so0perspam » Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:14 am

Scooter1027 wrote:
Bloody Nipples wrote:How is Sheets a #2 pitcher? He is an ace, and a stud one at that. I would much rather have Sheets in the second round than Santana in the first. Here's why:

Santana absolutely sucked in the beginning of the year last year, to the point where many fools dropped him. Then he went on the most unbelievable streak I have ever heard about. There is absolutely no way he repeats his second half over a full year. I think he will post numbers worse than his second half, but much better than his first half. That puts him solidly in the first round, but there is also the risk that he could pitch poorly like he did before his amazing run.

Sheets can be had about one round later, and will post very similar numbers across the board. The only cat they will differ much in is wins. And in keeper leagues, I think Sheets' wins will only increase as that great farm-system in Milwaukee grows up. Also, Sheets was pretty consistent through all of last year. And you cant ignore that insane K/BB ratio.


I agree with this 100% ;-D


I'll second that.
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Postby looptid » Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:09 am

Ender wrote:In my opinoin the brewers offense will be improved this year and the twins will be worse than last year. I still think santana is the better pick as I stated before but the last few posts saying that its not even close I can't agree with.


I love exchanging Podsednik for El Caballo (from the bottom of every Twins fan's heart, thankyou for ripping off the White Sox). I think the Brewers offense will make significant strides this season.

However, the Twins offense could be much better than it was last year. People will cite the loss of Koskie as an obstacle. However, as far as an improvement or decline from 2004 going into 2005, Koskie was hurt most of last year (even when he wasn't officially on the disabled list). He only ammased 488 plate apperances and posted a fairly replacable .837 OPS and 5.56 RC/27. Morneau only played half a season, and during the first half, Mientkiewicz put up some truely horrible numbers for a starting first baseman. The Twins also only got 35 games out of Mauer. In Mauer's place, the Twins had to give 353 plate apperances to the offensive black hole that is Henry Blanco.

Mauer's health is a question, but I don't think it is too big a reach to assume he plays more than 35 games for the Twins in 2005, or that Morneau more than 74. If I had to make a guess, I would say that the Twins do score more runs in 2005 than they did in 2004.
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Postby wrveres » Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:21 am

Where did all of this Ben Sheets love come from ...
Sheets is better than Pedro ?
Sheets is better than Santana ?


He was waiver wire last season ...

Must be Ben Sheets day or something
I think maybe people should look at the three years prior to last year before drafting him above Santana or Pedro. Heck, I don't even know that I would want ben sheets this year, no way he gives back what you are obviouslly going to have to pay for him.

Code: Select all
Year   W       IP    ERA    WHIP   BAA     k/9   bb/9   h/9
2001   11   151.10   4.76   1.41   0.283   5.6   2.9   9.9
2002   11   216.20   4.15   1.42   0.281   7.1   2.9   9.9
2003   11   220.20   4.45   1.25   0.268   6.4   1.8   9.5
2004   12   237.00   2.70   0.98   0.226   9.9   1.2   7.6





lol ...

Ben Sheets.
He has never even won 13 games in a season
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Postby prodpaul » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:26 am

Ender wrote:Even though Sheets is probably my favorite player in the game right now, I have to go with Santana. Better team, better bullpen and the 2nd half of last year was one of the dominating halves of pitching I've ever seen.


Yep gotta agree also.
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Postby Mugwump » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:06 am

wrveres, "Where did all of this Ben Sheets love come from... ?"

Code: Select all
Year   W       IP    ERA    WHIP   BAA     k/9   bb/9   h/9
2001   11   151.10   4.76   1.41   0.283   5.6   2.9   9.9
2002   11   216.20   4.15   1.42   0.281   7.1   2.9   9.9
2003   11   220.20   4.45   1.25   0.268   6.4   1.8   9.5
2004   12   237.00   2.70   0.98   0.226   9.9   1.2   7.6



Thanks for some support here... This is all that I was trying to point out. At last years draft he was a late round pick, now everyone is on his you know what. When it comes to value don't overlook the guys who slip and get somewhat disrespected ala Pedro & Beckett. In fact Sheets has been drafted ahead of Prior, Schilling, Colon, and in a few drafts ahead of Schmidt. I would much rather wait and take one of the guys mentioned above.
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Postby Yoda » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:07 am

wrveres wrote:Where did all of this Ben Sheets love come from ...
Sheets is better than Pedro ?
Sheets is better than Santana ?


He was waiver wire last season ...

Must be Ben Sheets day or something
I think maybe people should look at the three years prior to last year before drafting him above Santana or Pedro. Heck, I don't even know that I would want ben sheets this year, no way he gives back what you are obviouslly going to have to pay for him.

Code: Select all
Year   W       IP    ERA    WHIP   BAA     k/9   bb/9   h/9
2001   11   151.10   4.76   1.41   0.283   5.6   2.9   9.9
2002   11   216.20   4.15   1.42   0.281   7.1   2.9   9.9
2003   11   220.20   4.45   1.25   0.268   6.4   1.8   9.5
2004   12   237.00   2.70   0.98   0.226   9.9   1.2   7.6





lol ...

Ben Sheets.
He has never even won 13 games in a season



Well, he wasn't on waivers in 3 leagues I played in. One of them is pretty shallow also.

Sheets was supposed to be this good. OK maybe not this good. He is only 26 years old and he has improved every single season since joining the big club. Also, he has been extremely durable despite the fact that he required surgery on his back most of 04. And he put up numbers just as good as Santana's and Pedro's. As I mentioned before I have not seen anyone put up 264/32 K/BB by accident.
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Postby Ender » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:15 am

Don't let the 2003 era fool you, era is just not a strong yardstick for measuring a pitchers abilities. He pitched very well in 2003 and you could just see he was ready to break out. The last year he started to develop the change up more and Mike Maddux helped him with his mechanics which raised his velocity some and you see the results. Expect another solid year from him unless his back acts up.
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Postby slomo007 » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:08 am

Bloody Nipples wrote:How is Sheets a #2 pitcher? He is an ace, and a stud one at that. I would much rather have Sheets in the second round than Santana in the first. Here's why:

Santana absolutely sucked in the beginning of the year last year, to the point where many fools dropped him. Then he went on the most unbelievable streak I have ever heard about. There is absolutely no way he repeats his second half over a full year. I think he will post numbers worse than his second half, but much better than his first half. That puts him solidly in the first round, but there is also the risk that he could pitch poorly like he did before his amazing run.

Sheets can be had about one round later, and will post very similar numbers across the board. The only cat they will differ much in is wins. And in keeper leagues, I think Sheets' wins will only increase as that great farm-system in Milwaukee grows up. Also, Sheets was pretty consistent through all of last year. And you cant ignore that insane K/BB ratio.


BN, the reason for his pitching struggles were due to his offseason elbow surgery.

I really don't think you can even compare the two, Sheets comes out of nowhere to be a stud only to have his ERA rise in the 2nd half. While Santana has been a relief stud for a while, and was finally given the chance to dominate as a starter, and he lived up to it. There is no doubt in my mind that I would take Santana for many many years over Sheets.
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