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Sheets vs. Santana

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Postby CubsFan7724 » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:01 pm

Santana will beat Sheets in every category unless you use something wacky like K/BB. Then Santana will beat him in everyone but one.
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Postby Pedantic » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:20 pm

mark8037 wrote:Seriously this isn't even close. Sheet plays on a sucky team that will frustrate even the best pitchers in to submission. Sheets lost a lot of steam after the all star break and was average at best coz the brewers couldn't score. You might get the Ks but dont expect too many wins.

Santana all the way (maybe the first or second pitcher of the board)


I agree that Santana is the way to go, but Sheets average after the Break? If 131 K's in 113 2/3 innings and a 3.17 ERA is your idea of average, I only hope everyone else thinks the same way. ;-)
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Postby colt4523 » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:20 pm

Definitely Santana. I am still not sold on Sheets yet, but for some reason I think I am going to end up with him on one of my teams. :-?
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Postby Scooter1027 » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:25 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:Santana will beat Sheets in every category unless you use something wacky like K/BB. Then Santana will beat him in everyone but one.


You seem pretty confident about this even though Santana had exactly one more K than Sheets last year with an ERA that was a whopping 0.09 lower. Sheets did all this with a back in need of surgical repair almost all season. He has come into spring saying it feels better than ever, and he wished it had been done sooner. Scary to think he could be better.

That said, Santana is the fantasy pick. They will be neck and neck in all categories except wins, most likely. Johan will probably win 17-22 or so, and Sheets is probably in line for 13-17. But, as someone else said, wins are hard to predict, with Odalis Perez being a good example. I will probably avoid Santana because I can likely get the same guy minus a couple wins a couple rounds later. I prefer not to take a SP 5th or 6th overall myself, but that might just be me.
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Postby Yoda » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:32 pm

mark8037 wrote:Seriously this isn't even close. Sheet plays on a sucky team that will frustrate even the best pitchers in to submission. Sheets lost a lot of steam after the all star break and was average at best coz the brewers couldn't score. You might get the Ks but dont expect too many wins.

Santana all the way (maybe the first or second pitcher of the board)


Oh really? Not even close? Well let's see aside from Ws which the pitcher has very little control over, tell me if these are close:

265K, 2.61 ERA, 0.92 WHIP
264K, 2.70 ERA, 0.98 WHIP

Don't know about you but they look awfully close to me. So you may want to do a little research before you make declarations like that.

Also consider, Minnie had the 17th best offense, MIL had the 29th. Finally, Minnie had the 12th best defense, MIL had the 25th. So clearly, Santana was helped IMMENSELY by his team while Sheets was not.

I think Santana is a great pitcher and may become the best if he can come close to his 04 performance. However, at this point, if we are just comparing raw skills, Sheets is just as good.
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Postby mark8037 » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:33 pm

Pedantic wrote:
mark8037 wrote:Seriously this isn't even close. Sheet plays on a sucky team that will frustrate even the best pitchers in to submission. Sheets lost a lot of steam after the all star break and was average at best coz the brewers couldn't score. You might get the Ks but dont expect too many wins.

Santana all the way (maybe the first or second pitcher of the board)


I agree that Santana is the way to go, but Sheets average after the Break? If 131 K's in 113 2/3 innings and a 3.17 ERA is your idea of average, I only hope everyone else thinks the same way. ;-)


I thought I was talking about wins... I already acknowledged that he would get the Ks. Got to admit that ERA looks real good.
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Postby Mugwump » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:42 pm

While I like Sheets as a player and was happy for his successes last year, I don't think he matches up to Santana. IMHO Santana is an ace for your staff, while Sheets is a #2. It seems every year that people over & under value pitchers... Year to year everyone panics about pitching. If you go back and check the last few years of pitching projections player's average draft pick they are silly. This years over valued are O.Perez and B.Sheets. Don't get me wrong, they are great players, but will most likely be overpaid for in almost every league.
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Postby Yoda » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:27 pm

Mugwump wrote:While I like Sheets as a player and was happy for his successes last year, I don't think he matches up to Santana. IMHO Santana is an ace for your staff, while Sheets is a #2. It seems every year that people over & under value pitchers... Year to year everyone panics about pitching. If you go back and check the last few years of pitching projections player's average draft pick they are silly. This years over valued are O.Perez and B.Sheets. Don't get me wrong, they are great players, but will most likely be overpaid for in almost every league.


If it was anyone else, I would have agreed with you. But you don't go 264 K/32 BB by accident. He is as real as it gets.
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Postby Ender » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:28 am

In my opinoin the brewers offense will be improved this year and the twins will be worse than last year. I still think santana is the better pick as I stated before but the last few posts saying that its not even close I can't agree with.
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Postby Bloody Nipples » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:26 am

How is Sheets a #2 pitcher? He is an ace, and a stud one at that. I would much rather have Sheets in the second round than Santana in the first. Here's why:

Santana absolutely sucked in the beginning of the year last year, to the point where many fools dropped him. Then he went on the most unbelievable streak I have ever heard about. There is absolutely no way he repeats his second half over a full year. I think he will post numbers worse than his second half, but much better than his first half. That puts him solidly in the first round, but there is also the risk that he could pitch poorly like he did before his amazing run.

Sheets can be had about one round later, and will post very similar numbers across the board. The only cat they will differ much in is wins. And in keeper leagues, I think Sheets' wins will only increase as that great farm-system in Milwaukee grows up. Also, Sheets was pretty consistent through all of last year. And you cant ignore that insane K/BB ratio.
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