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how about #3-#4 type starters ????

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how about #3-#4 type starters ????

Postby daweasle » Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:59 am

which of these guys would you rather have?

please rank or just give me your top 3-4

jeremy bonderman
cliff lee
al leiter
kevin millwood
esteban loaiza
jerome williams
orlando hernandez
jon lackey
eric bedard
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Postby so0perspam » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:01 am

Bonderman


Lackey
Leiter
Lee
Williams
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Postby TheYanks04 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:03 am

El Duque

Leiter
J. Williams
Bonderman
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Postby daweasle » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:45 am

I am kind of surprised no one seems to like millwood.

He is stuck in my head as a great pitcher - and going to cleveland should help his win total....he has had 14+ wins 4 of 5 years in majors,(where he started 30+ games) high Ks, low walks, all the stuff I look for in a good pitcher.

its hard to consider him injury prone - he started 30+ games 5 of 6 years since his rookie year.
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Postby beltrans_boy » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:55 am

How would a move from Philly to Cleveland help his win total? Moving from a good offensive team with a great closer to a good offensive team with one of the shakiest bullpens in the majors? I don't see it.

Getting out of Philly will help his numbers overall, but not wins. At least I don't think so. He's got to solve his control issues though before we can start making any sort of predictions.

Can you guess that I got burned by him last year?
[size=10]"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument." [/size]
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Postby daweasle » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:38 am

he had 4 CG last year - and had at least three leads blown by the philly bullpen.

I think cleveland is in a much easier division
think tigers royals white sox
as opposed to
marlins, braves, and (this year) mets (and last year - puerto rico park)

look out side division rivals and I'd say american league hitting is probably tougher than national league - BUT also throw in the fact that millwood doesn't have to hit and run this year. (which limits his injury risk a little bit - which it was already pretty low in my opinion)

addditionally you mention the weak cleveland bullpen - but really - they have 5 guys who are close to "closer caliber" pitchers in riske, rhodes, betancourt, cabrera and wickman.

Wickman is a former top notch kinda guy everyone seems to have forgotten about. from 1999-2001 He had 30+ saves every year and a sub 3.0 ERA when you average the three years(3.3,2.3,3.1)
in 2002 he got hurt - and this is the first year he's coming into spring training completely healthy since then.

I think millwood gets 18-20 wins this year if things work out right but I wanted to see what everyone else thinks.
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Postby foulballstrike3 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:50 am

I dunno about 18-20 wins??? Yikes! He is brutally inconsistent at times, he always has a stretch during the season where he doesn't have any quality starts. I wouldn't mind having him, but I wouldn't get your hopes up too much about him.
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Postby thomasps3 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:13 am

hey weasel..one guy you might be overlooking is jake westbrook in cleveland. he had a solid 1.25 whip, 3.38 era, and ended up with 14 Ws, even with that lousy 'pen they had last year..he should've had like 17 Ws if the bullpen hadn't been so awful..but just an idea
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Postby rlee » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:31 am

Bonderman - strong second half in '04, 24 yrs old, poised to make a jump this year

Millwood - healthy again; his numbers last year were made worse by a terrible Philly bullpen

Jerome Williams - another who is healthy this year; has shown that he can produce in a pitchers' park

Leiter - the best of the rest, although I don't look for good things from him this year; he must have used magic to keep all of the runners on base stranded last year; Ks have fallen to nothing accompanied by increasing walks
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Postby slomo007 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:32 am

rlee wrote:Bonderman - strong second half in '04, 24 yrs old, poised to make a jump this year

Millwood - healthy again; his numbers last year were made worse by a terrible Philly bullpen

Jerome Williams - another who is healthy this year; has shown that he can produce in a pitchers' park

Leiter - the best of the rest, although I don't look for good things from him this year; he must have used magic to keep all of the runners on base stranded last year; Ks have fallen to nothing accompanied by increasing walks


Great list...my thoughts exactly.
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