Beltran = Overrated - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Beltran = Overrated

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby WittyC » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:16 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:Too bad he isn't in Texas anymore. Yankee Stadium is bad for right handed hitters, so I would say 35 homers is pretty accurate for ARod. And the SBs will be lower too.,


According to what I've seen, Yankee Stadium is ranked one point behind Arlington, and Shea is ranked 10 point lower than either of them. And SB will be lower compared to what? A-Rod to Beltran or A-Rod to last season? Why are you projecting less SB's for A-Rod? I highly doubt he will decline in everything at the age of 30.

Beltran and A-Rod are both gamble picks. I just think Beltran is a gamble that he can re-produce last year's stats, where as A-Rods a gamble that he can reproduce his Texas stats. Basically a gamble on a floor vs. a ceiling.
WittyC
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Dillon, CO

Postby Amazinz » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:21 pm

I think Arod's biggest hit in value comes from the loss of SS eligibility.

The SBs are the primary thing that makes Beltran valuable and I don't understand how people think a move to Shea will hurt his SBs. Last year the Mets were the 4th most efficient base stealing team in the history of the majors and they just got faster. If anything I think Beltran will have an opportunity to set a career high playing for the Go-Go Mets.

And Ajg you mention the Mets lineup like it's weak and it's anything but. It has some injury conerns sure but the Mets have a pretty good lineup and I don't think Beltran is the type of hitter that will be overly affected by Shea.
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby WittyC » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:27 pm

Amazinz wrote:And Ajg you mention the Mets lineup like it's weak and it's anything but. It has some injury conerns sure but the Mets have a pretty good lineup and I don't think Beltran is the type of hitter that will be overly affected by Shea.


I know you weren't directly comparing the two, but...

Womack/Jeter/A-Rod/Sheff/Matsui
vs.
Matsui/Reyes/Los/Piazza/Floyd

I mean, honestly... can you still believe that if Los hits .280, or even the ridiculous .290 projo's everyone's putting him at, that he'll beat A-Rod in runs/RBI's? That's just outlandish. The only way he beats A-Rod in runs is if Piazza struggles so much that Los gets walked every other at bat.
WittyC
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Dillon, CO

Postby LBJackal » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:29 pm

Yankee Stadium is a lot tougher than Arlington to hit in, especially for righties. Not a horrible park by any means, but still, you can look at his splits in Texas and then everywhere else and notice a huge difference.

As for being gamble picks... I really don't see that with either of them. They have enough history to know generally what to expect. SB's are a question for both, but you never really know how many SB's a guy will get unless that's all they do (Crawford, Pods, etc). I'd be surprised to see A-Rod beat Beltran in any category besides HR's and possibly RBI (depends on his lineup spot, and long Womack is at leadoff). But with Womack leading off :-o they'd be better letting him bat 9th where he belongs and putting Jeter first.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby LBJackal » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:32 pm

WittyC wrote:I mean, honestly... can you still believe that if Los hits .280, or even the ridiculous .290 projo's everyone's putting him at


He hit .305 on the road last year, and Shea actually inflates BA. You can't just look at overall stats when a guy is in a park that hurts BA and HR so badly (MM Park and Kauffman). If .290 is outlandish for anybody, it's A-Rod. He'll be hard pressed to come close to Beltran in BA.

As for the lineups, yes the Yankees' lineup is better but that doesn't mean A-Rod is better.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby Amazinz » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:39 pm

WittyC wrote:I know you weren't directly comparing the two, but...

I wasn't trying to suggest that the Mets have the better lineup or that's the reason why Beltran is a better pick than Arod. Ajg said that Beltran is going to a weak lineup and I said that the Mets have a pretty good lineup going into the season. I wouldn't exactly call it weak.

WittyC wrote:I mean, honestly... can you still believe that if Los hits .280, or even the ridiculous .290 projo's everyone's putting him at, that he'll beat A-Rod in runs/RBI's? That's just outlandish.

No I don't believe Beltran will top Arod's RBIs but I still think Beltran will be near a 100 RBIs. Most importantly is that Beltran will beat Arod in Rs and SBs which IMO are the two most valuable of the 5 hitting categories.

Finally, it's not as simple as comparing Beltran to Arod. Arod is only 3B eligible this year and there is a ton of talent at the position.
Image
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
Amazinz
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 18800
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: in Canada, toughening up figure skaters

Postby tlef316 » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:42 pm

beltran hitting .290 isnt outlandish. He hit .307 two years ago in KC. Im not saying he's gonna do it again, but im predicting .280-.285

edit: i dont think Beltran will top A-Rod in RBI. Maybe not runs either.
welcome home andy
tlef316
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 1735
Joined: 3 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: central jersey

Postby The Kavorka » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:48 pm

ajgnydc722 wrote:
The Kavorka wrote:
ajgnydc722 wrote:
The Kavorka wrote:Spoken like a true Yankee fan who's arrogance knows no boundries. Why don't you check out how lefties fare at Sheas and then get back to us.


Yeah, I can tell you and all 3 of your posts know alot about me and my boundries...



I'll be here all year ajg. I'll find out soon enough about your boundries. Since I got your attention can you give me your expert Yankee opinion on Juice Boy Giambi this year? Projections?


I don't really care how long you'll be here. But when you obviously haven't been here long, I don't appreciate you labeling me "a Yankee fan whose arrogance holds no boundries".

BTW, nice attempt to attack me by bringing up the "Juice Boy Giambi" comment. I know what you're trying to do, but I'm bigger than that.

My opinion on Giambi is that I have none. I don't know what to expect. Nobody does. He could hit 25 homers, he could hit 5. There's no telling. I am rooting for him because he seems like a good guy. Sheffield is a jack@$$ for what he said, and he should be bashed 10x worse than Giambi, because he lied.


You have my apologies regarding the arrogance comment then. I'm just sick of hearing all the Yankee fans bash Beltran. I didn't appreciate the "3 posts" comments either but I guess it was to be expected. Just because people on this message board have thousands of posts doesn't make them more knowledgeble than someone new to this forum.

I do however agree 100% with what your saying regarding Sheffield & Giambi. Sheffield lies through his teeth and gets a free pass because he produces and Giambi tells the truth and gets killed because he doesn't produce. It amazes me people don't see that.

This topic got way off base. I still say Beltran will warrant a top 3 pick THIS year regardless of Shea.
What are you guys doing?
"Putting on the Foil Coach!"
The Kavorka
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 488
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby LBJackal » Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:05 pm

The Kavorka wrote:I do however agree 100% with what your saying regarding Sheffield & Giambi. Sheffield lies through his teeth and gets a free pass because he produces and Giambi tells the truth and gets killed because he doesn't produce. It amazes me people don't see that.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sheffield admit to using steroids while Giambi hasn't? Also I can't blame the Yankees for keeping Sheff around, he helps the team a lot, why would they get rid of him for breaching his contract (if that's even in his contract)???
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby ajgnydc722 » Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:38 pm

The Kavorka wrote:
ajgnydc722 wrote:
The Kavorka wrote:
ajgnydc722 wrote:
The Kavorka wrote:Spoken like a true Yankee fan who's arrogance knows no boundries. Why don't you check out how lefties fare at Sheas and then get back to us.


Yeah, I can tell you and all 3 of your posts know alot about me and my boundries...



I'll be here all year ajg. I'll find out soon enough about your boundries. Since I got your attention can you give me your expert Yankee opinion on Juice Boy Giambi this year? Projections?


I don't really care how long you'll be here. But when you obviously haven't been here long, I don't appreciate you labeling me "a Yankee fan whose arrogance holds no boundries".

BTW, nice attempt to attack me by bringing up the "Juice Boy Giambi" comment. I know what you're trying to do, but I'm bigger than that.

My opinion on Giambi is that I have none. I don't know what to expect. Nobody does. He could hit 25 homers, he could hit 5. There's no telling. I am rooting for him because he seems like a good guy. Sheffield is a jack@$$ for what he said, and he should be bashed 10x worse than Giambi, because he lied.


You have my apologies regarding the arrogance comment then. I'm just sick of hearing all the Yankee fans bash Beltran. I didn't appreciate the "3 posts" comments either but I guess it was to be expected. Just because people on this message board have thousands of posts doesn't make them more knowledgeble than someone new to this forum.

I do however agree 100% with what your saying regarding Sheffield & Giambi. Sheffield lies through his teeth and gets a free pass because he produces and Giambi tells the truth and gets killed because he doesn't produce. It amazes me people don't see that.

This topic got way off base. I still say Beltran will warrant a top 3 pick THIS year regardless of Shea.


I don't claim to be more knowledgeble than you just because I have more posts. Your post total is low, which means you haven't been around long, which means by calling me arrogant your jumping to extreme conclusions.

Amazinz, I'm not saying the Mets lineup is weak, I'm just saying that it's not as potent as Houston's lineup was last year, when he had such a breakout year. There are alot more question marks in this lineup than there were in Houston's last year.
Image
ajgnydc722
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 4067
Joined: 11 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: THE EMPIRE

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact