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5X5, 6X6, 7X7....What is the best for a 12 man H2H???

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5X5, 6X6, 7X7....What is the best for a 12 man H2H???

Postby delux_247 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:07 am

This will be my second year as commissioner of our league and I was wondering what the Cafe thought was the best way to structure the scoring categories.

This is what I had last year:

HITTING: AVG, HR, R, RBI, SB, BB, K, E
PITCHING: ERA, WHIP, W, L, SV, K, CG, SHO

I really liked having all the categories for hitting, but to score in the CG and SHO category was so rare it seemed to swing the balance between hitting and pitching toward hitting. (If that makes sense.)

I dont know....I was thinking about dropping the SHO and E cats...what are your toughts??

Thanks in advance!
Last edited by delux_247 on Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby foulballstrike3 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:18 am

Whoa boy, I don't mean to be rude, but those catz are pretty crazy. You just disregard relief pitchers altogether? So if you're watching a game on TV cheering on your guys, you just turn off the tube after the 7th or 8th inning? Yes, you need to get rid of losses, CG, and SHO. You can't penalize a guy for being on a poor team. The likes of Ben Sheets and Oliver Perez would become avg. in this system. Also, catz shouldn't be decided by a 1-0 score as is probably the case w/ cg and SHO. No RBI's for hitters? Yikes. If you wanna factor in walks, go w/ an OBP or OPS instead of BB and Avg. You probably need to get rid of all the extra trimmings. I appreciate what you are trying to do by spicing things up, but you are disregarding two of the most important stats (SV and RBI) and including some stats that don't belong in 5X5, 6X6 etc. If you wanna include all of those things, I suggest going to a total points head to head format.
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Postby foulballstrike3 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:25 am

Lemme further clarify, because you're a nice guy, and i sounded like a huge dink. You can fork out an extra $50 or so for a website for total points head to head, then throw out a system like this:
1b - 1
2b - 2
3b - 3
HR - 4
RBI - 1
R - 1
BB - 1
SB - 2
E - -2
K - -1

W - 10
L - -4 (though I just don't think you should lose points for quality loss)
K - 1
IP - 2
ER - -1 or -2
H or BB allowed - -0.5
SV - 5 or 6
SHO - extra 5 (a guy already is going to get a ton of points w/ the other stuff if he goes the distance)

Depends on how much you wanna weigh pitching vs. hitting, plug some players #s in to figure it out. I am not saying you must do a points league head to head, but w/ your catz, it appears that is what you wanna do.
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Postby delux_247 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:34 am

Thanks for your reply. I made a mistake. I did have both RBI and SV cats last too. I was trying to remember everything off the top of my head. Sorry man.
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Postby foulballstrike3 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:38 am

You're welcome, ha, no need to apologize, I shoulda known you had just forgotten them. It's just that 5X5 is going to give you the most competitive, fair game out there. If you feel the need for extra catz, go w/ OPS and Holds. Things such as errors are too volatile, and it only leaves the entire year up to luck. But hey, if you're cool w/ it, and your league mates had a good time, I guess you can stick w/ what works.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:41 am

We actually use something like 13x13 categories as the first year (we are about into year #4...) everybody was griping so much about this category vs. that category the commish just said 'we'll just use them all!! Shut UP!!'.

He got xferred to another position so I inherited the job and we used 13x13 (AB, r, h, HR, RBI, SB, BB, K, E, Avg, OBP, SLG, OPS for hitters and IP, W, L, CG, SHO, SV, HR, BB, K, Holds, ERA, WHIP And K/ 9 for pitchers). It seems to work well and the league is pretty competitive, w/ lots of close matchups, lead changes, etc. Nobody has bothered rolling pitchers or benching them really, a couple of people had some success using tons of P to win the volume but only for a couple of weeks as sooner or later, they get shelled and slaughtered. W/ more cats, each cat isn't worth quite as much so about the worst thing that happens is speed guys don't have quite the same mojo as in 5x5. We did a 5x5 roto one year for the second half and it wasn't nearly as entertaining
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:51 am

well - it sounds like some people are giving you advice for a h2h points style league rather than a standard h2h style league. You need to decide what kind you want since they are drastically different as well as the strategies.

Personally I try and only play 5x5. I disagree with those who play 7x7 or 14x17.5 or whatever who say they do it because its more complicated. No - most of the time its just a greater level of luck and they have no idea how so many cats interaction creates levels upon levels of intricate nuances that affect rankings and value. I also disagree with those who will tell you that fantasy baseball should try and replicate real baseball at every opportunity.

Play 5x5 and master it. When you add in more cats all you do is add in a greater degree of luck.
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Postby AcidRock23 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:56 am

sometimes I wish I was better at math so I could figure out whether there's really a difference or not! We've just stumbled on it and it seems to work for us. What I'd really like to do is make a dummy league and run a 5x5 and 13x13 concurrently, w/ the same teams and see how they match up. hmmmm..... :-?
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Postby xeifrank » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:57 am

5x5 is the best, the more categories you add the more of a mess it is. If you don't like the standard 5x5 categories, then perhaps move on to some more sabermetric categories instead and keep it at 5x5.

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Postby delux_247 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:27 pm

Thanks for all the responses. There is a guy in my league that is telling me to do a standard 5X5, but I just cant seem to pull the trigger.

I think BB's and K's to a hitter is just as important to their value as AVG and HR's. I do agree that the E cat is a bad idea though.

Most importantly I want a fair league. If you guys think that adding cats like BB, K, CG, and SHO makes it less competitve I will give them the boot.
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