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Mark - I did not use steroids or any other illegal substance

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Postby lesgrant » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:04 pm

LBJackal wrote:Playing the race card to me, is using race as an excuse when it isn't a factor in something. Bonds gets lambasted by the media - oh it's because he's black. That's playing the race card. I didn't get this job which I'm not qualified for, but a white guy whose more qualified did. You hate me because I'm black. That's playing the race card. Yeah, it gets overused by some people, and yeah blacks and other minorities DO have reason to complain in some situations.


Now, in the examples you listed, how do you know it isn’t racism?

In the job situation, it’s usually the opposite of what you’ve depicted in that a more qualified black applicant is usually passed over for a less qualified white applicant. Often, there are assumptions made that the black candidate was not as qualified. That in and of itself is a faulty assumption.

Keep in mind, it is a fact that black men make 66 cents to the dollar relative to white men for the same job with the same qualifications. So to assume there is a level playing field and everyone is treated fairly from the start is false.

As an aside, I had a college friend (that is black) who went on to Michigan Law. His application was one of the applications cited by the affirmative action lawsuit as an example of affirmative action letting in lesser qualified candidates. For some reason, the plantif’s side assumed that because he was black, his LSATs, undergraduate school, and GPA were lower than the average incoming white student. One of the things that hampered their case was that his, and several others’, qualifications were above the white student average.

But back to your job analogy, I’m wondering where many of my black classmates who complain about this stack up in your view of “race card”. Many graduated in the top half of our class. The school is an Ivy, so even if they are the goat of the class, they are still elite candidates for jobs relative to everyone else. But yet they hear the “race card” thing all the time when they complain about being discriminated against.

My personal view is that it is overused. There are more legitimate complaints about racism in this country than there are bogus individuals looking for a free ride.

Lastly, my biggest problem with the term is that it’s used exclusively by whites. I have never heard a black, Asian, or Latino person use the term. And the black people I’ve discussed it with are very offended by it – even those who are more conservative and less likely to complain about racism.

Again, I do not mean to single anyone out that responds to this sidebar – even though I may be responding to an individual quote. “Race card” is a term that is widely used.

I appreciate everyone’s honesty.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:12 pm

Lets get off the race topic its not a politics thread. There should be a level playing field, but unfourtunetly there isn't. And it goes both ways. More qualified white people have been passed up in order to fill a quota for minority positions. Its a sad fact that it still happens nowadays, and an even worse fact that it will never end. You are right there are more legit claims about racism, but Barry Bonds claim isn't. The reason people hate you is because you are a cheating fraud jerk Barry, not because you are african american.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:15 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:The reason people hate you is because you are a cheating fraud jerk Barry, not because you are african american.


Perhaps one of the only times I have agreed with Cubsfan.
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Postby sappisgod » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:17 pm

lesgrant wrote:Lastly, my biggest problem with the term is that it’s used exclusively by whites. I have never heard a black, Asian, or Latino person use the term. And the black people I’ve discussed it with are very offended by it – even those who are more conservative and less likely to complain about racism.

Again, I do not mean to single anyone out that responds to this sidebar – even though I may be responding to an individual quote. “Race card” is a term that is widely used.

I appreciate everyone’s honesty.


I'm Mexican and have used it before/have heard it used by other minorities. Your assumption that it is used exclusively by whites is false. I, and other minorities understand that some people bring up the race issue where it has no place.
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Postby lesgrant » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:57 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:Lets get off the race topic its not a politics thread. There should be a level playing field, but unfourtunetly there isn't. And it goes both ways. More qualified white people have been passed up in order to fill a quota for minority positions. Its a sad fact that it still happens nowadays, and an even worse fact that it will never end. You are right there are more legit claims about racism, but Barry Bonds claim isn't. The reason people hate you is because you are a cheating fraud jerk Barry, not because you are african american.


I don’t think race is being discussed primarily with respects to politics. It was brought up (not by me) relative to baseball and the media.

I think it’s apart of the issue, though not the driving element.

But, I actually agree with you. I think Bonds is a jerk and a cheater. But, when compared to Maguire, there just isn’t the overall distain for him that there is for Bonds – even though both are jerks and cheaters AND broke the HR record while being both a jerk and a cheater. That’s where there is a double standard. Is it racial? That has yet to prove true, primarily because Maguire’s name only seriously came up over the weekend. Not because there is no potential for it.

As MM’s name is linked to ‘roids more and more, I’m positive that race will be discussed more and more. I would hope not to hear “race card” from individuals who are not yet aware of the full scope of the story.

And sappisgod, you are the first person of color that I’ve ever known to use that term. Everyone I’ve ever known finds that term as offensive as any other racial slur. And for the record, I view it as a racial slur as well because, more often than not, it discounts a valid experience for the sake of perpetuating racial inequality.
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Postby FatGuyWithAMullet » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:45 pm

Oh would you just stop making unfounded assertions already lesgrant? You aren't some civil rights crusader so just do everyone a favor and drop the holier than thou attitude.
Last edited by FatGuyWithAMullet on Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sappisgod » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:45 pm

lesgrant wrote:And sappisgod, you are the first person of color that I’ve ever known to use that term. Everyone I’ve ever known finds that term as offensive as any other racial slur. And for the record, I view it as a racial slur as well because, more often than not, it discounts a valid experience for the sake of perpetuating racial inequality.


More often than not discounts a valid experience? That's not what I'm talking about. To give you an example, one experience really shows my point was a little while back when I was in school and a kid accused a teacher of giving him a bad grade on a paper just "because he was black." The teacher of course, was white. But that's not the point. This kid kept pushing the issue, and even filed a complaint with his mother to the superintendent. That's all fine, but the kid was a complete slacker, and having read most of his paper it was worthy of the grade given. Basically, this kid had no reason to bring race into the fact that he wrote a poor paper that didn't meet the teacher's specific requirements. This is the type of thing I'm talking about. People like that, people like Michael Jackson, and even Jesse Jackson are the ones making the "race card" a joke. It's not a slur to people who've been discriminated against. It's calling people on inserting race into something for no reason.

Having lived in a neighborhood that isn't the greatest, and driving the car I drive, I've been pulled over more than my fair share for little-no reason. "You fit the description." I'm sure I do. I've been the victim of descrimination, so I'm not one to dismiss everything so easily. But that is not a slur. When used correctly, it's calling a spade, a spade. Problem is, it's not always used correctly. Just looking online, I've found a quite a few articles written by respected black journalists about the overuse of "the race card." They apparently don't find it offensive.
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Postby cmchampa2 » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:16 pm

It seems, fortunately, that most everybody posting here has a real problem with race being used out of place and actual racism when it occurs. No doubt that both happen, but the ones using race and racism inappropriatly lose all credibility and are simply worse humans. It seems that everybody here feels this way. Good.

There are definately people that will defend/roast Bonds just because he's black. There are definately people that defend/roast McGwire because he's white. Probably the same for Canseco, Matsui, Harden (anyone got a problem with Canadians?). I haven't seen one post here that would suggest that any of those people are cafers.
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Postby blankman » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:21 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
CubsFan7724 wrote:The reason people hate you is because you are a cheating fraud jerk Barry, not because you are african american.


Perhaps one of the only times I have agreed with Cubsfan.


Me too
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:13 pm

Oh man, spooky! Blank and Transmo agreeing with me? Why is Bonds speculated and hounded more? Simple, hes playing, he has the records, and hes about the break the most sacred record in all of sports. Mark McGwire is retired and out of baseball. So, its just the fact that people see that Bonds will tarnish the record books with his records which were under the influence of steroids. And hes a total jerkoff too.
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