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10 pitchers better then Felix

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Postby ensanimal » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:09 pm

raiders_umpire wrote:
Rico The Retard wrote:alright you ready, ill give ya 20 pitchers better than him

Randy Johnson
Johan Santana
Curt Schilling
Roy Oswalt
Jason Schmidt
Carlos Zambrano
Ben Sheets
Pedro Martinez
Mark Prior
Oliver Perez
Jake Peavy
Tim Hudson
Mark Mulder
Kerry Wood
Roger Clemens
Eric Gagne
Mariano Rivera
Joe Nathan
Francisco Rodriguez
Billy Wagner

you never said minor leaguers you just said pitchers in general :-D




you so read my mind rico........


as far as minors though...felix is the top pitching prospect but i like cain, miller and danks as well......just not quite as good as i like felix though,,,,,,,,but saying that young is still my first pick in a minors draft if i had one starting today......


uh oh :-o

thinking like rico, or is rico thinking like you. i'd be scared either way though i think :-D
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Postby Rico The Retard » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:29 pm

ensanimal wrote:
raiders_umpire wrote:
Rico The Retard wrote:alright you ready, ill give ya 20 pitchers better than him

Randy Johnson
Johan Santana
Curt Schilling
Roy Oswalt
Jason Schmidt
Carlos Zambrano
Ben Sheets
Pedro Martinez
Mark Prior
Oliver Perez
Jake Peavy
Tim Hudson
Mark Mulder
Kerry Wood
Roger Clemens
Eric Gagne
Mariano Rivera
Joe Nathan
Francisco Rodriguez
Billy Wagner

you never said minor leaguers you just said pitchers in general :-D




you so read my mind rico........


as far as minors though...felix is the top pitching prospect but i like cain, miller and danks as well......just not quite as good as i like felix though,,,,,,,,but saying that young is still my first pick in a minors draft if i had one starting today......


uh oh :-o

thinking like rico, or is rico thinking like you. i'd be scared either way though i think :-D


i can read your thoughts to ensanimal

hmmmmm......lets see....... right now you want........ to watch a hockey game with an unlimited amount of beer with a naked chick dancing in your living room

AM I RIGHT
fgfdsgdsfdasfd

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Mark my words: Oliver Perez will be 2005 NL Cy Young Winner
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Postby io » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:06 pm

lol

crap... i knew i had it coming

lets revisit this thread a year from now, then we can yap away...
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Re: 10 pitchers better then Felix

Postby io » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:57 am

dammit, ok real quick

hybrid wrote:Ok well this should be fun...

Jeff Francis - pitches for the Rockies, are you serious?

better pitcher, not luckier pitcher.. put francis and felix on the same team

Adam Miller - Um huh? He is below Felix in the minors & Felix's stuff is better.

better stuff? prove it

Yusmeiro Petit - a year and a half older then Felix and hasn't done anything in AA.

his stats through A-ball are clearly better.. he outpitched Felix for 98% of the season. thats all i know

Jose Capellan - Ok you really have to be kidding with this one, the only thing he can throw is a fastball and I'm not even making it up.

your not making it up.. its the best fastball in the minors or majors... and your joking about it. you cant overlook him..if he develops his stuff, he is one scary s o b...

Scott Kazmir - About time this got harder. Well since you seem to dislike walk rates, why is he even on here?

because success at the major league level is safer then success at A-ball

Zack Duke - Only 3 years older, he knows how to pitch better know cause well.. he is 3 years older. But when your K rate dips that much in Double A and your not young for it, watch out. He's nice but nothing special.

you worry too much about age... alot can change in 2 years. pitchers change - they get hurt, they gain weight, they improve, they lose velocity, ect .. i'll take Duke at 21 over Felix at 18 anyday, its not really a big deal ... if Duke was 25 you would have a case

Jairo Garcia - RP need not apply

so your gonna draft Bartolo Colon over Eric Gagne this year? what are you saying? also, alot of pitching prospects are known to become relievers.. RP's belong in this conversation

Joe Blanton - Nothing personal cause I think he will be a nice SP, but could he be more hittable in AAA at 23? Only thing that saved him was that he doesn't walk many.

yea thats why i think he's good enough... low walk rate. if he pitches like he did in AAA, he'll be successful for Oakland this year

Scott Baker - Once again a 23 year old, see if he was any type of SP at all, he is supposed to do that to A/AA. Look how he struggled at AAA though, I bet Felix puts up better numbers then that this year in AAA at 19.

all i know is that Baker's AA stats BLOW AWAY Felix's AA stats.... what Felix does in AAA remains to be seen... let him succeed first before you proclaim the next roger clemens... and your harping on the age thing again... 23 is still a young enough age to improve and develop as much as any 18 year old..

Zack Grienke - Well Greinke isn't a prospect any more, though he would give the best arguement since he was also very young.

ahhhh

Cole Hamels - injuries?

well... he's the better pitcher if he can stay healthy. hitters fear him as much as anyone

Jeff Niemann - yet t throw a pitch in the minors?

fine.. i'll give you him. but thats about it. i totally agree that Felix has amazing potential, but you havent really proven how he's better then any of the others. all you told us was that he's 18 a bunch of times
.
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Re: 10 pitchers better then Felix

Postby hybrid » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:48 am

I brought up age in only 2 of the pitchers you listed, and how am I faulted in doing that? Age is a huge issue when your talking about minors and prospects, you can't simply disregard it like your doing.

Francis- yep he is a better pitcher and he should be, he is 24. Like it or not you have to take that into consideration. Felix has better stuff is extremely better then Francis was at his age.

Miller - I won't have to prove it once the M's let him through his slider. Though if you even want to compare now, they both have mid-high fastballs and plus breaking pitches, the key is Felix has a better change up and most woud say better control (the control part is what I've heard from scouts or others, so take it for what's worth ... not everything can be viewed by stats)

Petit - Felix's stuff is much better and of course he did it a younger age. You can bring up the stats all you want but when they are always a year and a half to 5 years (Francis) older, you can't compare.

Cappy - Congrats, he can throw 1-2 mph faster. It doesn't change the rest of his short comings because he has one plus.

Kazmir - So that high 5.67 ERA 1.62 WHIP was success?

Dukes - You look past age and actual stuff way to much.

Garcia - Ok since you really wanted to go there. You care to tell me how he had a walk rate of 7.5 at AA & 5.9 at AAA as only a relief pitcher, yet you think he is as good as Felix?

Blanton - I guess you love him cause he doesn't walk people, which is very reasonable. Won't say anything else cause a lot of these guys just aren't comparable stat wise.

Baker - Because if he was any type of pitcher he would! You can't compare them state wise, but you seem to be having fun trying. Did I ever claim he was the next Roger Clemens, nope I don't believe I did. For all I know he could get hurt tomorrow and never pitch again, things happen. But for the sheer point of the arguement you brought up, I stand by what I said, it's my prediction and I believe I'm allowed to make one. After all your trying to say all these guys are better with out knowing what Felix will do. While I'm saying that at his age he is clearly the best.

Hamels - One of my fav pitchers in the minors, but you can't over look injuries. In the majors if someone gets hurt like Beckett, do you over look it? If Felix gets hurt you can't over look it either, though if he comes back from it fine it helps that he is younger.

Of course I can't proove anything to you if your not going to reconize age and actual stuff. If we are just going to look at stats, I'm sure there are maybe even 25 SP's out there in the minors with great stats. However, it does not mean that are better prospects, cause you don't just take into account stats.
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Postby io » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:16 am

my problem with the age arguement is that players naturally change as they grow, especially pitchers... sometimes they morph for better or worse. you always hear about guys losing their stuff, ect, so whenever i hear that Felix is 18, it brings up alot of questions .. he could still be in a jelly stage (its a little different for hitters imo).. i also think he could gain too much weight, but thats another touchy subject. im not saying its gonna happen but it enters my mind sometimes. i've already been shot down by someone in my league on this... anyway, i'd much rather see Felix doing this great at 20 years old

actually, if a pitcher is doing great at age 23 or 24, then its time to do handstands, because he's more likely entering an age where what you see is what you get....

Capellan - i dont think you understand his arguement. you act like he throws 98 .. he doesn't give up many hr's either, so he has more then one thing going for him

Petit - he has as good as stuff as anyone in the minors. you don't need a mid-90's heater to be good in the majors

Kazmir - he was successful in my oppinion because he showed alot of poise in a couple of games i saw. you shouldn't take a rookie's era/whip so seriously, especially in limited time .. if he was giving us a crap 5.00 Era for 2 years like Bonderman, then i'd be a little more concerend

Duke - im sorry but your insane over age. your acting like he's over the hill at 21....his stuff is great.. if you talk about the speed on his fastball, i won't buy it... the world is not so boring where every single pitcher has to thow 95+... its not what makes him great. he's one of the toughest to score runs on because he doesn't walk anybody

Garcia - your right his walks are garbage.. he should improve. if he doesn't its a waste of great talent :/ its all oppinion i cant really make an arguement for him based on fact

you seem to agree that Francis, Miller, and Hamels are in league with Felix.... woohooo

i know the subject says "better". but i'm just trying to prove there is more talent out there... im trying to bring this guy down to earth because he's not the god of pitchers. i dont mean to go after you hybrid, its everybody.. i'm a little tired of hearing about felix the KING who hasnt pitched AAA yet. there are pitchers just as good as him, i'm positive ...
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Re: 10 pitchers better then Felix

Postby LBJackal » Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:56 am

hybrid wrote:Joe Blanton - Nothing personal cause I think he will be a nice SP, but could he be more hittable in AAA at 23? Only thing that saved him was that he doesn't walk many.


More hittable? He was awesome in AAA. PCL no less. Other than Haren (whose older and had a year of AAA/MLB under his belt before last season) he was better than anybody in the PCL last year. You say he's lucky he has his control, but that is half of being a pitcher. K's are great but if you walk people, that doesn't matter. Blanton had a dominating year, and there's no minor league pitcher or rookie I'd take over him. Definately not a guy who hasn't even pitched in AAA yet.
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Postby hybrid » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:49 pm

I saw Kazmir's every start, I'd say it was a learning experience more then anything. Once he can throw a change up and have more control, I really like his chances.

On Cappy, I'm just saying for a SP he lacks a good deal and needs to develope a lot, which at his age isn't a good sign. Everyone else pretty much on the list has something else besides a nice fastball. He has had to rely on it so much that his feel for pitching isn't that good.

You can ask anybody, scout or someone seen both Petit and Felix, nobody will say Petit has as good of stuff as Felix. Petit though really knows how to pitch and has great control, his stuff isn't bad either...just not as good.

io, I will agree with you that there are pitchers just as good as him in the minors. But, there is no pitching prospect as good as him. There is a reason they hype him to Doc Gooden, whether or not he is anywhere near that good in the future will remain to be seen. No one else has put up as close of stats to Doc at his age as Felix has.

JBJackel, Blanton threw 172 IP and gave up 199 hits in the PCL, that's a hit clip of 10.2. The only way he survived was only walking 1.7 per 9 and not giving up many hr's. I'm not talking about his K/rate cause it wasn't that bad since he isn't a strike out pitcher.

There were a few off the top of my head better in the PCL, Carlos Hernandez and Jeff Francis, if we are just talking young pitchers/prospects. More power for ya to choosing Blanton, like I said I think he will be a good SP, I just tend to take more risks then most and would take Felix.
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Postby ensanimal » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:04 pm

Rico The Retard wrote: i can read your thoughts to ensanimal

hmmmmm......lets see....... right now you want........ to watch a hockey game with an unlimited amount of beer with a naked chick dancing in your living room

AM I RIGHT


you my friend are a genius ;-D :-b
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Postby Zito is God » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:09 am

io wrote:
Petit - he has as good as stuff as anyone in the minors. you don't need a mid-90's heater to be good in the majors



Either you're joking or have not read the scouting report on Petit. The guy has average stuff...its his DELIVERY that gets him the stats, his delivery is decieving as he hides the ball until the lasts second. Hittwers will get used to it and then hes done. I remmember when Nomo's delivery was dominating...
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