Farnsworth traded to Detroit for prospects... - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Farnsworth traded to Detroit for prospects...

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby davidmarver » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:54 am

LBJackal wrote:The Cubs have done great IMO. They got rid of Sosa who is bad, overpaid, and hated. They got rid of Farny who is their 4th arm out of the pen and not as good as everybody thinks he is, and got 3 prospects in return (don't know much about them, but I've heard of Novoa so maybe he's good ???). They didn't overpay Alou just because he had a career year, I don't know how that's viewed as a bad thing. Same with Clement, why overspend on an SP in this ridiculous market when you have a comparable one already in Glendon Rusch?

Hairston and Burnitz aren't great, but they're better than the rest of the Cubbies' OF's (which is pretty much just a bunch of rookies along with Corey Patterson who couldn't reach first base with one of Denny Neagle's clients).

So is their team better by losing Sosa, Alou, and Clement? No. But they saved $25M in 2005 salary alone by getting rid of those guys (More if you factor in Alou and Clement's multi-year deals). The added value of having those 3 isn't very big at all... I don't know how anyone could criticize the Cubs. Maybe if they had a shaky team because of the losses, but I'd be surprised if they don't better last season's W/L record. And they still have most of that extra $25M to play with (Burnitz iss $4.5M, Hairston is $1.5M which leaves about $19M left).


I don't know how you can say the Cubs did great when they just lost 74 homeruns, 186 rbi, and 175 runs between two players; one of whom had an off year. Lee, Ramirez, and Garciaparra's values are all significantly less without those bats to drive them in, regardless of Sosa's inept timely hitting and propensity to strikeout.

Clement's 3.68 era and 9.5k/9innings made him one of the best fourth starters in the majors and gave the Cubs an advantage every fifth day. If he'd had decent run support, he would have won 12-15.

The Cubs got worse this offseason. Burnitz and Hairston are marginal players, despite what Burnitz did in Colorado last year.

Sure the Cubs still have a chance, but if, and only if, Prior, Wood, and Zambrano are all healthy and at their top level.

Trading Farnsworth was bad. All someone had to do was tell him his breaking ball sucked and to keep throwing heat. I remember a game two years ago where he hit 102 on the meter. How can you trade that, especially when he had an offyear last year.
Image
davidmarver
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 ChampionLucky Ladders Weekly WinnerTrivia Time Trial Monthly Winner
Posts: 6154
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: 5.5 Hole

Postby LBJackal » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:57 am

davidmarver wrote:
LBJackal wrote:The Cubs have done great IMO. They got rid of Sosa who is bad, overpaid, and hated. They got rid of Farny who is their 4th arm out of the pen and not as good as everybody thinks he is, and got 3 prospects in return (don't know much about them, but I've heard of Novoa so maybe he's good ???). They didn't overpay Alou just because he had a career year, I don't know how that's viewed as a bad thing. Same with Clement, why overspend on an SP in this ridiculous market when you have a comparable one already in Glendon Rusch?

Hairston and Burnitz aren't great, but they're better than the rest of the Cubbies' OF's (which is pretty much just a bunch of rookies along with Corey Patterson who couldn't reach first base with one of Denny Neagle's clients).

So is their team better by losing Sosa, Alou, and Clement? No. But they saved $25M in 2005 salary alone by getting rid of those guys (More if you factor in Alou and Clement's multi-year deals). The added value of having those 3 isn't very big at all... I don't know how anyone could criticize the Cubs. Maybe if they had a shaky team because of the losses, but I'd be surprised if they don't better last season's W/L record. And they still have most of that extra $25M to play with (Burnitz iss $4.5M, Hairston is $1.5M which leaves about $19M left).


I don't know how you can say the Cubs did great when they just lost 74 homeruns, 186 rbi, and 175 runs between two players; one of whom had an off year. Lee, Ramirez, and Garciaparra's values are all significantly less without those bats to drive them in, regardless of Sosa's inept timely hitting and propensity to strikeout.

Clement's 3.68 era and 9.5k/9innings made him one of the best fourth starters in the majors and gave the Cubs an advantage every fifth day. If he'd had decent run support, he would have won 12-15.


Clement, Alou, and Sosa aren't that good, and all 3 are overpaid. Are they a worse team? Slightly. But they saved $25M. :-? If want to ignore my point of my post, that's fine, I'm not going to go over it specially for you.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby slomo007 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:27 am

LBJackal wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
LBJackal wrote:The Cubs have done great IMO. They got rid of Sosa who is bad, overpaid, and hated. They got rid of Farny who is their 4th arm out of the pen and not as good as everybody thinks he is, and got 3 prospects in return (don't know much about them, but I've heard of Novoa so maybe he's good ???). They didn't overpay Alou just because he had a career year, I don't know how that's viewed as a bad thing. Same with Clement, why overspend on an SP in this ridiculous market when you have a comparable one already in Glendon Rusch?

Hairston and Burnitz aren't great, but they're better than the rest of the Cubbies' OF's (which is pretty much just a bunch of rookies along with Corey Patterson who couldn't reach first base with one of Denny Neagle's clients).

So is their team better by losing Sosa, Alou, and Clement? No. But they saved $25M in 2005 salary alone by getting rid of those guys (More if you factor in Alou and Clement's multi-year deals). The added value of having those 3 isn't very big at all... I don't know how anyone could criticize the Cubs. Maybe if they had a shaky team because of the losses, but I'd be surprised if they don't better last season's W/L record. And they still have most of that extra $25M to play with (Burnitz iss $4.5M, Hairston is $1.5M which leaves about $19M left).


I don't know how you can say the Cubs did great when they just lost 74 homeruns, 186 rbi, and 175 runs between two players; one of whom had an off year. Lee, Ramirez, and Garciaparra's values are all significantly less without those bats to drive them in, regardless of Sosa's inept timely hitting and propensity to strikeout.

Clement's 3.68 era and 9.5k/9innings made him one of the best fourth starters in the majors and gave the Cubs an advantage every fifth day. If he'd had decent run support, he would have won 12-15.


Clement, Alou, and Sosa aren't that good, and all 3 are overpaid. Are they a worse team? Slightly. But they saved $25M. :-? If want to ignore my point of my post, that's fine, I'm not going to go over it specially for you.


Saved it for what though? Better hot dog buns?

Face it, the Cubs had a ridiculously bad offseason. I completely agree with letting Alou and Sosa go. They should have at least tried a little harder to resign Clement, but more importantly, they should have signed a decent closer such as Benitez or even Perival. Saving money does not do any good for anyone except the owners. Particularly when either Percival or Benitez could have been had with relatively short-term deals.
slomo007
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle Eye
Posts: 11960
Joined: 31 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby LBJackal » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:03 am

slomo007 wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
davidmarver wrote:
LBJackal wrote:The Cubs have done great IMO. They got rid of Sosa who is bad, overpaid, and hated. They got rid of Farny who is their 4th arm out of the pen and not as good as everybody thinks he is, and got 3 prospects in return (don't know much about them, but I've heard of Novoa so maybe he's good ???). They didn't overpay Alou just because he had a career year, I don't know how that's viewed as a bad thing. Same with Clement, why overspend on an SP in this ridiculous market when you have a comparable one already in Glendon Rusch?

Hairston and Burnitz aren't great, but they're better than the rest of the Cubbies' OF's (which is pretty much just a bunch of rookies along with Corey Patterson who couldn't reach first base with one of Denny Neagle's clients).

So is their team better by losing Sosa, Alou, and Clement? No. But they saved $25M in 2005 salary alone by getting rid of those guys (More if you factor in Alou and Clement's multi-year deals). The added value of having those 3 isn't very big at all... I don't know how anyone could criticize the Cubs. Maybe if they had a shaky team because of the losses, but I'd be surprised if they don't better last season's W/L record. And they still have most of that extra $25M to play with (Burnitz iss $4.5M, Hairston is $1.5M which leaves about $19M left).


I don't know how you can say the Cubs did great when they just lost 74 homeruns, 186 rbi, and 175 runs between two players; one of whom had an off year. Lee, Ramirez, and Garciaparra's values are all significantly less without those bats to drive them in, regardless of Sosa's inept timely hitting and propensity to strikeout.

Clement's 3.68 era and 9.5k/9innings made him one of the best fourth starters in the majors and gave the Cubs an advantage every fifth day. If he'd had decent run support, he would have won 12-15.


Clement, Alou, and Sosa aren't that good, and all 3 are overpaid. Are they a worse team? Slightly. But they saved $25M. :-? If want to ignore my point of my post, that's fine, I'm not going to go over it specially for you.


Saved it for what though? Better hot dog buns?

Face it, the Cubs had a ridiculously bad offseason. I completely agree with letting Alou and Sosa go. They should have at least tried a little harder to resign Clement, but more importantly, they should have signed a decent closer such as Benitez or even Perival. Saving money does not do any good for anyone except the owners. Particularly when either Percival or Benitez could have been had with relatively short-term deals.


I know, I'm not saying they improved the team, I'm saying they made smart moves. Yeah getting a closer would have been good, but with the moves they actually made, they were all positive. The offseason isn't over and I've heard they're going after Dotel and Urbina.
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby slomo007 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:05 am

Does anyone know if teams can invest unused money and use it for next year? A 10% return on $25 million would mean 2.5 million more for next year. Is this possible?

Also LBJ, if they get Urbina or Dotel, their offseason will be a success. ;-D
slomo007
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle Eye
Posts: 11960
Joined: 31 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby qwerty » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:09 am

Saved it for what though? Better hot dog buns?

Face it, the Cubs had a ridiculously bad offseason. I completely agree with letting Alou and Sosa go. They should have at least tried a little harder to resign Clement, but more importantly, they should have signed a decent closer such as Benitez or even Perival. Saving money does not do any good for anyone except the owners. Particularly when either Percival or Benitez could have been had with relatively short-term deals.


Benitez wanted no less than three years. I would not really consider that a short term deal. I also know that the cubs are looking for someone younder than percival to close. Remember reading they felt he was too much of a health risk. When players of any age go on the dl it seems like people always describe them as ''injury prone''. Which is just utterly ridiculous in my opinion.
Last edited by qwerty on Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
qwerty
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 41
Joined: 9 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby qwerty » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:11 am

slomo007 wrote:Does anyone know if teams can invest unused money and use it for next year? A 10% return on $25 million would mean 2.5 million more for next year. Is this possible?

Also LBJ, if they get Urbina or Dotel, their offseason will be a success. ;-D


Yes, it is.
qwerty
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 41
Joined: 9 Feb 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby slomo007 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:15 am

qwerty wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Does anyone know if teams can invest unused money and use it for next year? A 10% return on $25 million would mean 2.5 million more for next year. Is this possible?

Also LBJ, if they get Urbina or Dotel, their offseason will be a success. ;-D


Yes, it is.


Regarding the 3 years for Benitez...that is a deal that I would not be hesitant in the least to make. He is not as bad of a closer as his reputation makes him seem...it's just NYers that don't like him.

Also, if the Cubs plan this money well it may not be such a bad thing afterall. I wasn't aware they could invest it. Might as well do that and then hope for a good signing next offseason.
slomo007
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle Eye
Posts: 11960
Joined: 31 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby LBJackal » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:25 am

Why wouldn't they be able to invest their own money?

As for Benitez, I like him too. He's an excellent closer with a bad reputation. Maybe they missed the boat on him, but SF needed him badly as well so who knows how those negotiations went down. I'd still like to see Hawkins be given the job again :-D
Image

"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"

"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
LBJackal
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Pick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 9196
Joined: 1 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Hotel Yorba

Postby slomo007 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:29 am

LBJackal wrote:Why wouldn't they be able to invest their own money?


I guess I should have known better than to assume that the MLB had policies against rich teams getting richer (investing). :-D

And yeah, SF needed Benitez desperately too. It was a great year to be a FA closer, I think Percival could have gotten quite a bit more money if he had patience and signed with Chicago around the same time Maggs signed. I'm sure the Cubs are growing more and more nervous each day that wears on...and now they have the money to spend and nowhere to put it. Smart move, Troy. :-/
slomo007
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicEagle Eye
Posts: 11960
Joined: 31 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2015 MLB season starts in 4:10 hours
(and 97 days)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact