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CALLING ALL CAFE-ERS.......NEED HELP WITH RANKINGS PLEASE!!

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Postby LBJackal » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:48 pm

SHOCKandAWE wrote:LO: When i figure out the average am I dividing t by 20 or just the amount of people that actual put him on their list?


A good way to do it would be to divide by the number of people who had the certain player on their list, as long as the guy finished in the top 15 at his position. This way, if people forget Renteria or Reyes, or something like that, it doesn't get counted in the average. But players who deserved to be left off of lists (not in the top 15 at his position) are counted as a zero since you'd divide by 20 no matter what.

I realize it will be a good ranking no matter how you go about it, but it would be better if these anomalies were straightened out. Now that all the work (apparently 3+ hours per position) has gone into making them standardized it would be a shame to pass up on an opportunity to make them that much better, with a process that would probably take 5 minutes if somebody knew what they were doing. But if it's too much trouble, I see where you're coming form, and they'll be useful anyway. Just something to think about though.
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Postby sockeye » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:30 pm

Cooner wrote:hmm, not to get picky, but if there will only be one set of rankings displayed, would it be worth showing a standard deviation, so it's easy to tell if someone was the consensus number 4, or everyone voted for him as number 2, but one chump forgot to rank him? Or maybe just throw out the highest and lowest ranking of every player?

(** Cooner ducks the tomato soOperspam throws at him **)


Cooner, the min, max, and frequency of occurrence that I computed for LO should probably be a useful replacement for ST DEV (and more intuitive). I assume that table is fair game once he has his averages collated.

As for people submitting weird or "wrong" rankings, I think that in itself is VERY good information to include. My sense is that the cafe is far more in agreement about various players than the "outside" FBB community in general. Therefore, if some Cafers disagree that a guy is top 15, or whatever, it reflects some uncertainty that we may all see in our own drafts.

LO, is it cool to mention a few other trends of note picked out from the OFs, or is that jumpin the gun?
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Postby Cooner » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:08 pm

sockeye wrote:
Cooner wrote:hmm, not to get picky, but if there will only be one set of rankings displayed, would it be worth showing a standard deviation, so it's easy to tell if someone was the consensus number 4, or everyone voted for him as number 2, but one chump forgot to rank him? Or maybe just throw out the highest and lowest ranking of every player?

(** Cooner ducks the tomato soOperspam throws at him **)


Cooner, the min, max, and frequency of occurrence that I computed for LO should probably be a useful replacement for ST DEV (and more intuitive). I assume that table is fair game once he has his averages collated.

As for people submitting weird or "wrong" rankings, I think that in itself is VERY good information to include. My sense is that the cafe is far more in agreement about various players than the "outside" FBB community in general. Therefore, if some Cafers disagree that a guy is top 15, or whatever, it reflects some uncertainty that we may all see in our own drafts.


that's true, my point was just that if all that will be displayed in the end is the average ranking, you can't get any of that info. And while what you included might work for your rankings, it wouldn't work for everyone elses who didn't do those things as well when they collated.

And while I agree with your 2nd point, that information is also not available if only a single average ranking is displayed. I wish it would be. And while yes, I could form the std. dev. myself LBJ, I can't if all the rankings aren't available.


Please note that I'm not in any way trashing Lo's rankings- I think these will be a GREAT tool. I just wish that more info could be available, info that could easily be obtained if the formatting were standardized... maybe next year? ;-D
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:09 pm

sockeye wrote:
Cooner wrote:hmm, not to get picky, but if there will only be one set of rankings displayed, would it be worth showing a standard deviation, so it's easy to tell if someone was the consensus number 4, or everyone voted for him as number 2, but one chump forgot to rank him? Or maybe just throw out the highest and lowest ranking of every player?

(** Cooner ducks the tomato soOperspam throws at him **)


Cooner, the min, max, and frequency of occurrence that I computed for LO should probably be a useful replacement for ST DEV (and more intuitive). I assume that table is fair game once he has his averages collated.

As for people submitting weird or "wrong" rankings, I think that in itself is VERY good information to include. My sense is that the cafe is far more in agreement about various players than the "outside" FBB community in general. Therefore, if some Cafers disagree that a guy is top 15, or whatever, it reflects some uncertainty that we may all see in our own drafts.

LO, is it cool to mention a few other trends of note picked out from the OFs, or is that jumpin the gun?


I have no problem with you posting it but when the final rankings are posted, I want to make it easier for Arlo to post here. Now that I know the stuff that goes into this, I can look for other options for next year. We also need to remember that for the most part, this should all average out. With 20 people, there really shouldn't be any crazy rankings.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:24 pm

LBJackal wrote:Now that all the work (apparently 3+ hours per position) has gone into making them standardized it would be a shame to pass up on an opportunity to make them that much better, with a process that would probably take 5 minutes if somebody knew what they were doing.


I meant that bolded part in a good way, doesn't sound like it though :-o I just meant that I couldn't do it in 5 minutes, but maybe somebody could. Just re-read it and it seemed derogatory, but wasn't meant that way at all :*)
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Postby Cooner » Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:15 pm

LBJackal wrote:
LBJackal wrote:Now that all the work (apparently 3+ hours per position) has gone into making them standardized it would be a shame to pass up on an opportunity to make them that much better, with a process that would probably take 5 minutes if somebody knew what they were doing.


I meant that bolded part in a good way, doesn't sound like it though :-o I just meant that I couldn't do it in 5 minutes, but maybe somebody could. Just re-read it and it seemed derogatory, but wasn't meant that way at all :*)


don't worry, i'm pretty sure no one took offense... besides, you're right, they could be done in 5 minutes (would probably take me 15, but i'm slower than some of these other guys...) If we had all standardized them in the same way it would be really easy to do, but that certainly didn't happen- some people just retyped names, others played text manipulation games with excel, etc etc. So while, yes, it would be doable in 5 minutes if they were all standardized, they aren't, so it's not.
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Postby sockeye » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:11 pm

yeah, that would probably all be solved with a template. First name, last name, team, position, score, rankers name. All in different columns, and spell checked, or something like that. Burden of responsibility really then goes on the rankers to get it straight (no "Scotty Pods" getting submitted).

Then everything could go into one database/spreadsheet and get sorted by whatever was desired.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:41 pm

sockeye wrote:yeah, that would probably all be solved with a template. First name, last name, team, position, score, rankers name. All in different columns, and spell checked, or something like that. Burden of responsibility really then goes on the rankers to get it straight (no "Scotty Pods" getting submitted).

Then everything could go into one database/spreadsheet and get sorted by whatever was desired.


What about J, R?? :-D
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Postby free » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:49 pm

is there a guesstimate out on the completion time of this wonderful project :-?
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:05 pm

free wrote:is there a guesstimate out on the completion time of this wonderful project :-?


I'm just waiting on some pitcher rankings and then I'll forward them to Arlo. After that, it should be fairly soon. ;-D
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