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Why doesn't the Cafe create a Fantasy League???

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Postby pgbridge2000 » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:07 pm

The thing that many of you overlook when talking about possible ad revenue is the fact that except on sites which have rediculous amounts of hits (even more than the total fantasy baseball players) actually can make any money of ads. That was the whole problem with the tech boom in the late 90's is that most companies just "make money". Ad revenue isn't great enough to support a company (and as such its developers) especially an upstart with a limited audience (fantasyers). Most companies crashed because they had built up investor confidence by saying that they were going to make tons with ad revenue, but ad companies don't actually give that much money because it doesn't pay off well enough. I'm sure the guys who run cafe and deal with their own ad revenue know that it probably wouldn't be enought to start a major enterprise, especially one that hasn't built up the fanbase that cafe has. If cafe were to run it then it would be a huge risk because it would probably require investing all money into this venture which if it didn't pan out could ruin the cafe.

Really Yahoo does a fine job of being a fantasy software (for free). What it lacks is the real expert analysis and the community that cafe has... and that's really were cafe has its niche, as a place that holds forums for the Fantasy community and provides other goodies (analysis, articles, sleepers, entertainment, small games) that major companies that don't have the personalization that cafe has can't give. Personally I like the way things run here and there. If yahoo would link-up with cafe providing yahoo with the end-all add-on to draw more users and providing the cafe with more revenue to advance itself and do more that would be ideal but incredibly hard.
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Postby ramble2 » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:26 pm

pgbridge2000 wrote:Personally I like the way things run here and there. If yahoo would link-up with cafe providing yahoo with the end-all add-on to draw more users and providing the cafe with more revenue to advance itself and do more that would be ideal but incredibly hard.


Oh boy, this would be the worst thing that could happen to the Cafe. I'm all for the Cafe growing, but it'd be horrible if Yahoo users were directed here in any kind of direct way. The Cafe currently has 6629 members - that could easily double, triple or even quadruple in a day if we were linked to Yahoo. The Cafe would get overwhelmed with new users, and the personality of the Cafe would, I suspect, very quickly change for the worse. Have you seen the Yahoo boards?

It typically takes new members a little while to get properly socialized onto these boards. Inappropriate posts are, more often than not, from new members who haven't figured out the etiquette, level of discourse, and respectfulness of the Cafe. This isn't to bash on new members, as most of them very quickly figure it out (though it sometimes takes a public and/or private backlash) and become good members (who go on to police newbies themself!). If there were any kind of massive quick influx of new members it could seriously disrupt the Cafe.
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Postby curious_george_43545 » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:30 pm

ramble2 wrote:
pgbridge2000 wrote:Personally I like the way things run here and there. If yahoo would link-up with cafe providing yahoo with the end-all add-on to draw more users and providing the cafe with more revenue to advance itself and do more that would be ideal but incredibly hard.


Oh boy, this would be the worst thing that could happen to the Cafe. I'm all for the Cafe growing, but it'd be horrible if Yahoo users were directed here in any kind of direct way. The Cafe currently has 6629 members - that could easily double, triple or even quadruple in a day if we were linked to Yahoo. The Cafe would get overwhelmed with new users, and the personality of the Cafe would, I suspect, very quickly change for the worse. Have you seen the Yahoo boards?

It typically takes new members a little while to get properly socialized onto these boards. Inappropriate posts are, more often than not, from new members who haven't figured out the etiquette, level of discourse, and respectfulness of the Cafe. This isn't to bash on new members, as most of them very quickly figure it out (though it sometimes takes a public and/or private backlash) and become good members (who go on to police newbies themself!). If there were any kind of massive quick influx of new members it could seriously disrupt the Cafe.





Totally agree....as you can see I'm a new user and I'm amazed at how kind and helpful EVERYONE here is and it's easily the best site for forums I've ever been too. If yahoo users came here.....eck...........
Last edited by curious_george_43545 on Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Drdobs » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:50 pm

You know, that's a really good point. If Yahoo users ended up here it would definately suck...
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:01 am

I think its better that the Cafe is kept a bit more exclusive because we get more of the diehard players and better minds to help the new people who want to learn, not just the people who wander onto Yahoo and just do it for a larf, then abandon the team by week 10.
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Postby Drdobs » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:15 am

I still think the Cafe should figure out a way for us all to play in a league too..
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Postby mrmarley » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:07 am

Drdobs wrote:I still think the Cafe should figure out a way for us all to play in a league too..


I'm up for it...if not using frank's idea with restarting at midseason with the top 4 teams from each of 3 leagues, then we could also try going the massive-h2h way. We could start getting the divisions together now and decide on commissioners of each league so that everything's ready to go by the time Yahoo leagues start up. Playoffs would look like NCAA March Madness...

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Commish's would be responsible for keeping the cafe up to date on their divisions, and then during the playoffs supplying the stats since private leagues aren't accessible to non-league members.

Would we have enough H2H players interested? !+)

If not, are enough people interested in going the route frank mentioned, combining the top teams at midseason into one really competitive league, and redrafting?
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Postby grammysboy » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:16 am

Drdobs wrote:I still think the Cafe should figure out a way for us all to play in a league too..


We had at least three Yahoo leagues made up of Cafe members last season as a result of the auction drafts that were held. As the commissioner of one of those leagues, I can tell you it was frustrating when some of the members went AWOL before the season even started. (I assume they participated in the auction for the experience then didn't want to mess with a team.)

One of the problems I discovered with a league made up of Cafe members is the annonimity of internet play. Those of us in the leagues last season didn't know each other and would not have known if we passed each other on the street. One of the best parts of playing in the league here in my small home-town is seeing my opponents regularly and giving them a hard time about their crummy team or recent bad trade. We also found last season that trading was almost non-existant because communication among owners was very limited.

I have grown very fond of the Cafe and find the people here intelligent, well-informed and polite. If the Cafe offered a product similar to CBS's or ESPN's or even Yahoo's for a fee, I would encourage our league to move to it. However, I can see the many risks involved and hope there are no significant changes to this forum anytime soon. This is my winter fantasy "fix" and I don't know what I would do if it went under or was over-run by obnoxious Yahoo players who don't have a clue how to interact with others on the net. (Or even construct a complete sentence, for that matter.)

If someone wants to put together a "Cafe super-league," count me in, but be prepared for some disappointment when 30%-50% of the owners are not tending their teams by mid June.
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Postby Drdobs » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:22 am

Okay...

Well why don't we must make some barriers to entry to help weed out the fly-by-nights.

A couple of things could be done.

A) You could have an entry fee
B) You could require an Instant Messanger Service
C) You could flat out be picky about who you let in.

Only let in those who have a long standing relationship with the Fantasy Baseball Cafe *OR* those with a GOOD argument ot get in.

Weeding out the flaky players is probably not all that difficult when you really think about it... you just have to do more work up front.

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Postby TheYanks04 » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:25 am

pgbridge2000 wrote:The thing that many of you overlook when talking about possible ad revenue is the fact that except on sites which have rediculous amounts of hits (even more than the total fantasy baseball players) actually can make any money of ads. That was the whole problem with the tech boom in the late 90's is that most companies just "make money". Ad revenue isn't great enough to support a company (and as such its developers) especially an upstart with a limited audience (fantasyers). Most companies crashed because they had built up investor confidence by saying that they were going to make tons with ad revenue, but ad companies don't actually give that much money because it doesn't pay off well enough. I'm sure the guys who run cafe and deal with their own ad revenue know that it probably wouldn't be enought to start a major enterprise, especially one that hasn't built up the fanbase that cafe has. If cafe were to run it then it would be a huge risk because it would probably require investing all money into this venture which if it didn't pan out could ruin the cafe.

Really Yahoo does a fine job of being a fantasy software (for free). What it lacks is the real expert analysis and the community that cafe has... and that's really were cafe has its niche, as a place that holds forums for the Fantasy community and provides other goodies (analysis, articles, sleepers, entertainment, small games) that major companies that don't have the personalization that cafe has can't give. Personally I like the way things run here and there. If yahoo would link-up with cafe providing yahoo with the end-all add-on to draw more users and providing the cafe with more revenue to advance itself and do more that would be ideal but incredibly hard.



That is actually not entirely correct. Many crashed because they outright lied and/or misled investors with inflated and wildly optimistic numbers. The fact that many had never turned a "Real" profit was known, but the WS crowd was in on the scam, pushing the sale of these firms stocks through IPOs and other means to make commissions. The old saying is that if you tell a lie often enough eventually you will find some poeple who will believe it...and eventually you may start to believe it yourself.

It does not cost a lot to put up a site. It costs a lot to get people to go to the site and use it to generate the hits needed to attract ad revenue in meaningful numbers. You need a good programming staff (not a bunch of cheap know-nothings from Bombay) and some people with some actual business and product knowledge (like people who know baseball and fantasy experts on a fantasy baseball site for instance). Not some fools babbling the obvious like "Pujols is a great player". If your programmers know nothing about fantasy baseball, and you do not have fantasy baseball business experts giving them direction and/or ideas on what is needed, then how do you expect to come up with a good prooduct people will use?
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