Who is the Santana, Sheets, Zambrano this year?

[hybrid]

Let me elaborate why I wouldn't draft these guys unless its keeper

Rich Harden - 4.5 era or so and walks to many to be a stud yet

Bonderman - will destroy your team era, and whip, wont get many wins on Detroit. Everyones happy with his 2nd half stats last year?
5-7 record doesnt do it for me

Sorry but I easily disagree with you. Harden 4.5 era, huh? He had an era under 4 and that is taking into account the beginning of the year before he settled down. The kid only walked 33 in 98 IP after the all star break, the kid can be wild (as any young SP) but the kid is defiantly turning it around already and is just going to get better.

Once again Bonderman will destroy your era and whip? Do you only go off stats in the past and never check were any progress occured? Even if you take into account his whole year, he still had a pretty decent whip of 1.31, so your wrong even if he improves barely. Only thing I can agree is obviously you won't get tons of wins being on the Tigers.

These are young SP's who made tons of progress last year but your throwing it out the window, why? I can see why people like you would be hesitant but come on, a lot of what you said didn't have any reason from the get go. You don't draft these young kids with any high risk, you draft them to get a great bargain after the top pitchers are gone. If they deliver some very good stats, you can live with out the W's...that's what for the top picks are for.

[SPEEDY]

Bonderman (only 2 years I know)

averages

wins 8.5
era 5.225
ks 138
whip 1.43

sorry even late there are quality pitchers left he lost 19 dam games in 2004 with a 5.56 era that alone is enough to keep me away. I don't care what his potential is, I can't remember the last time Detroit had a pitcher that I wanted on my team. Bonderman as a Zambrano, Sheets, or Santana ?????? Thats the title of this thread and would be willing to bet whatever you like Bonderman doesn't come anywhere in the area of 1 of those pitchers 2004 numbers.

Harden has the greatest potential in the bigs to improve. All I am saying is that everyone is just way too high on him. I don't see him putting up numbers that I have seen floating around. predicting 16-17 wins for him is way too high in my book. Maybe 2006 my tone will change but as for now I would pass on him unless its a keeper league. Just my opinion and yes I think his era will go up and not down. Don't forget pitchers can improve but hitters can also improve against pitchers once they figure them out.

[WittyC]

he might still be a couple years away, but Brazelton from Tampa Bay might be a good pickup in the later rounds. He won't get many W's, but I'd assume his ERA and WHIP will drop significantly.

[hybrid]

Why are you listing Bonderman's 2 year avg? That really doesn't mean anything when you talking about him breaking out. Everyone knows, or should know, that he was rushed waayyyy ahead of schedule. He only pitched a full year, of A ball, before his rookie year. If he was in a organization with a good team, this year would prolly be his 1st full year in the bigs.

The poster said who could be the next young SP's to be like Santana, Zambrano, or Sheets. Sheets prior to last year was a pitcher that was putting up around mid-4 era wise and that he didn't get his whip under 1.40 till his 3rd year. Bonderman already doesn't give up as many hits as Sheets did (prior to his break out last year) and he drastically improved his control in the 2nd half. Sheets in his 3rd year had a .268BAA, Bonderman in just his 2nd year and a younger age had a .242BAA. Really the only thing that is keeping Bonderman from having a breakout year is his control for a young SP, which I believe he will improve upon. Also Bonderman pitches in the AL so it will be a little tougher.

If you don't think either will breakout then that's fine, your allowed to think that. I just disagreed and didn't think what you were saying was true or had any reason to it. Sure the betting man wouldn't go for it, but I also would guess that not many would of thought Sheets would have the year he did either.

BTW, Yes hitters can improve just as pitchers. Though he has pitched for a year and a half now and he keeps getting better. Hitters improve more on pitchers who don't have the best stuff and rely more on location or a different delivery (willis is a good example). Harden however has incredible stuff, it's not like big league hitters don't have a clue as to what he is gonna throw now.

[ukrneal]

Any thoughts on Rodrigo Lopez? he doesn't have the K's, but he made a big improvement last year.

[Pochuck]

I can see some people just dont get it -- it aint what they done its what they are gonna do!