And 1 thing that few, if anyone, has brought up is that if this is a keeper league, Giles is even more valuable based on the original question. He needs a player at 2B. After this season, Reyes will no longer have that eligibility.
pokerplaya wrote:You can all draft Giles in the 4th. I'll wait a half dozen rounds, and draft Reyes.
All else equal, sure, Giles is the safer choice here. But I will take all that risk, and all that yet to be fulfilled potential of Reyes, and draft the likes of Delgado, Chavez or Halladay in the 4th instead.
This is not towards you but just those type posts in general.......These threads always seem to evolve into threads discussing relative values. That wasn't the original issue. It was just Giles vs. Reyes. Of course, Reyes can be had later. This was about who was better. A case could be made for taking someone other than Pujols in the 1st round if you want to talk about relative values. Something like I could take Tejada #1 overall and then get 30-100 out of Morneau in the 10th. Less production but relatively, he's a much better pick. Know what I mean?? I'm not picking on you but just showing how these threads evolve.
To an extent, you are absolutely right. I did not adress the initial question, or more precisely, I did but then I went on to explain why I felt Reyes was a smarter pick. Would I choose Giles over Reyes? Yes. So, I guess you can say, I feel Giles is better - end of discussion.
I know that was the core question here, and I, and a few others manipulated it and turned it into something it wasn't orginally intended to be.
However, I still maintain, that relative values are an important part of drafting and should always be considered. Were they part of the initial question? No. But could this discussion help someone? I believe it could, and therefore is valuable in and of itself.
And for the record, you are clearly oversimplifying my discussion by bringing up the Pujols/Morneau argument. It makes sense, yes, but I respond to that with a whole other set of relative value arguments - trade value. And that, opens up a whole different can of worms which I will not go into now.
pokerplaya wrote:You can all draft Giles in the 4th. I'll wait a half dozen rounds, and draft Reyes.
All else equal, sure, Giles is the safer choice here. But I will take all that risk, and all that yet to be fulfilled potential of Reyes, and draft the likes of Delgado, Chavez or Halladay in the 4th instead.
This is not towards you but just those type posts in general.......These threads always seem to evolve into threads discussing relative values. That wasn't the original issue. It was just Giles vs. Reyes. Of course, Reyes can be had later. This was about who was better. A case could be made for taking someone other than Pujols in the 1st round if you want to talk about relative values. Something like I could take Tejada #1 overall and then get 30-100 out of Morneau in the 10th. Less production but relatively, he's a much better pick. Know what I mean?? I'm not picking on you but just showing how these threads evolve.
But isn't the "draft place" inferred? For instance, last year on this site there was a big discussion about Loaiza-- how he overachieved in the previous season. So when people were asking questions about "should I take Loaiza or Sheets" they meant, in essense Loaiza in the fourth round or Sheets in the 10th; The comparative value of where a player goes while drafting is inferred when asking a question about drafting a player. Last year you read a lot of people saying things like "i wouldn't take loaiza where all the other 18 games winners will go; I'd wait for ...." in my example, that'd be sheets.
You're right, in one sense- but the value of a player is exactly inferred to the value of the round he is picked in. Is Prior a good pick? Sure-- in the 17th round he's an amazing pick. Some people would say not before the third round because of the injury. You can't talk about "who should I take in a draft" wihtout talking about "where do I take him"
So I think it's totally legit to say take Delgado now and take Reyes later-- Reyes later is inferred in the question itself...
maloze wrote:i do know that in july reyes stole 11 bases
i dont care , thats crawford/pierre-esque numbers..
And if he played a full season and supplemented it with those numbers, I would be more impressed.
red wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
pokerplaya wrote:You can all draft Giles in the 4th. I'll wait a half dozen rounds, and draft Reyes.
All else equal, sure, Giles is the safer choice here. But I will take all that risk, and all that yet to be fulfilled potential of Reyes, and draft the likes of Delgado, Chavez or Halladay in the 4th instead.
This is not towards you but just those type posts in general.......These threads always seem to evolve into threads discussing relative values. That wasn't the original issue. It was just Giles vs. Reyes. Of course, Reyes can be had later. This was about who was better. A case could be made for taking someone other than Pujols in the 1st round if you want to talk about relative values. Something like I could take Tejada #1 overall and then get 30-100 out of Morneau in the 10th. Less production but relatively, he's a much better pick. Know what I mean?? I'm not picking on you but just showing how these threads evolve.
But isn't the "draft place" inferred? For instance, last year on this site there was a big discussion about Loaiza-- how he overachieved in the previous season. So when people were asking questions about "should I take Loaiza or Sheets" they meant, in essense Loaiza in the fourth round or Sheets in the 10th; The comparative value of where a player goes while drafting is inferred when asking a question about drafting a player. Last year you read a lot of people saying things like "i wouldn't take loaiza where all the other 18 games winners will go; I'd wait for ...." in my example, that'd be sheets. You're right, in one sense- but the value of a player is exactly inferred to the value of the round he is picked in. Is Prior a good pick? Sure-- in the 17th round he's an amazing pick. Some people would say not before the third round because of the injury. You can't talk about "who should I take in a draft" wihtout talking about "where do I take him" So I think it's totally legit to say take Delgado now and take Reyes later-- Reyes later is inferred in the question itself...
Maybe it is inferred but it shouldn't be in this case. He just asked who was better. To me, that is almost like asking who he should pick. That is different than basically asking if getting Giles now is better than waiting on Reyes. I will also add that you would have the dilemma of either getting a player now or taking the chance that Reyes will still be there when your pick comes up later in the draft.
wow sorry i missed out on the meat of this discussion.....
as far as giles and reyes goes, i would take giles over reyes even though imo both are injury threats....reyes legs are a concern for a basestealer and giles 200% all out playing has caused him 2 injuries in the last 2 years..... giles is a possible 5 cat producer with 20-20 in reach if not 25-25.....reyes on the other hand is a 3 cat producer but will not harm u in the other 2 though due to his position eligibility(not many 2b or SS produce in all 5 cats)..... as far as reyes in the 10th, i doubt u see much of that in your leagues this year...he is going to be around 6th round talent in most 12 teamers due to his "possible" high end numbers......
as far as giles 4th or reyes 6th round question, personally i am going to pass on both of them and grab somebody else later due to their injury scares they give me.....
pokerplaya wrote:I believe Giles is the safer choice, and possibly the smarter choice all other things equal. However, I'd rather draft Reyes much later in the draft as his upside (if healthy) could have him performing similarly to Crawford last year at a weaker position. Fifty steals, 100 runs, and 10 hrs are not out of the question, IMO. Therefore, I'd try to draft Reyes a bunch of rounds later as I think he is a great value pick.
My first thought was "Giles easily" but pokeplaya makes a good point
I'm hoping to avoid this situation all together by snagging one of the surefire studs earlier on.
who's a sure fire stud at 2B ahead of giles besides soriano
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by Amazinz » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:59 pm 
![:-]](./images/smilies/smirk.gif "Scottie")
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