If K's count against you, what players would you avoid??? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

If K's count against you, what players would you avoid???

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:12 am

TheYanks04 wrote:Many of the same players you question the skill of now...

Dunn, Soriano, Sosa, MacPherson, Sexson, Cameron, Branyon, etc.


Thome is an interesting exception to this. He Ks a lot, always has. But he walks a lot also (good OBP) an he obviously puts up great 5x5 numbers. If you league also counts walks, their is a good chance that the walks and Ks cancel each other out to a great extent.
Dunn walks just as much if not more than Thome. I actually see them and very similar players.
Image
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21623
(Past Year: 272)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Adam Dunn

Postby baseball_playa18 » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:53 am

-Adam Dunn*
-Jeremy Burnitz - def. not as a started but not too bad as a 4th OF if you only use him when he's hot
-Mark Bellhorn - even as a 2nd basemen he doesnt produce enough to offset his K total

*Disclaimer - If his HR+RBI=180 then disregard this post.
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. -Jim Bouton

Cowards die many times before their deaths, the valiant never taste of death but once.
baseball_playa18
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 169
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: C-Town

Re: Adam Dunn

Postby Lofunzo » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:58 am

baseball_playa18 wrote:-Adam Dunn*
-Jeremy Burnitz - def. not as a started but not too bad as a 4th OF if you only use him when he's hot
-Mark Bellhorn - even as a 2nd basemen he doesnt produce enough to offset his K total

*Disclaimer - If his HR+RBI=180 then disregard this post.


Pujols hasn't even done that during his career. :-o
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby red » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:26 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:Many of the same players you question the skill of now...

Dunn, Soriano, Sosa, MacPherson, Sexson, Cameron, Branyon, etc.


Thome is an interesting exception to this. He Ks a lot, always has. But he walks a lot also (good OBP) an he obviously puts up great 5x5 numbers. If you league also counts walks, their is a good chance that the walks and Ks cancel each other out to a great extent.


Good catch on MacPherson; a lot of people are touting him as a sleeper this year; but in a points-based league that subtracts strikeouts; MacPherson's numbers are going to look better than they actually produce for your teams. Guy is a major strikeout-artist, from the wrong side of the plate.
In a points-based league that subtracts for Ks, let somebody else take him. 20 HR and 80RBI look like one thing, 20 HR and 80 RBI minus 150 pts for K's is entirely another...
red
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 503
Joined: 1 Feb 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby hooligan1 » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:27 pm

Fireball Express wrote:I'm in a 7x7 H2H league that uses Ks. Talking from experience, I wouldn't put too much of an onus on it. If you get preoccupied with Ks you may undervalue someone who has good totals in the other catagories. Two years ago I had Preston Wilson. Yeah, he K'ed a lot, but he also led the league in RBIs. So don't totaly disregard/avoid the Strikeout Kings, just bump them down a half notch.


I agree completely with this statement. I am also in a league that counts batter K's against you, and while you do have to be aware of them and realize what the dangers are, you can't overrate their importance and not draft guys or trade for guys who will help you more in other cats than K's will hurt you.....
Hooligan1
hooligan1
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 888
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Uumm, micro-managing my fantasy baseball teams. Where else?

Postby duckbillgates » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:46 pm

i'm starting my second year in a league that counts batter strikeouts, and i'm just starting to get the hang of it.

i also think you and many of these posts are missing the point.

it's not about who you avoid or who you go after to get good K points. it should be just another factor in determining value.

in other words, high strikeout numbers bump a guy down your rankings, low numbers bump him up. these minor changes in regular 5x5 rankings (which some of your leaguemates will invariably use, despite your additional categories) will help you win.

i tried crunching some numbers into the projection tool at rototimes.com. i couldn't get batter strikeouts in the roto tool, so i had to do a little fudging with the points tool.

i used these values for the hitters:
HR: 2 SB: 2 R:1 RBI:1 Hits:1 K:-1

Obviously, it doesn't translate directly to roto, particularly since i had to use hits instead of average and i'm unsure on exactly how to weight the other categories to get them right. Still, you could get some big patterns.

With these guidelines, here are some good guys to target. Keep in mind, these are guys who are already contributing to other categories very well. The low K totals are just icing and cause to bump them up a few places.

Albert Pujols (like he needed any more value)
Vladimir Guerrero
Ichiro Suzuki
Gary Sheffield (although his Ks were up a bit last year, borderline first-rounder in league that counts Ks)
Miguel Tejada
Todd Helton
Juan Pierre (he's a four-cat stud in strikeout leagues)
Johnny Damon
Barry Bonds
Brian Giles
Carlos Lee
Nomar Garciaparra
Aubrey Huff
Edgar Renteria
Garret Anderson
Sean Casey
Luis Gonzales
Magglio Ordonez
Orlando Cabrera
Victor Martinez

And here are some guys to move down in your rankings. Keep in mind, don't avoid them altogether. If they're dropping farther than they should in the draft, scoop 'em up. But their value is a little lower than in most rankings.

Alex Rodriguez (no, he shouldn't be around in the second round, but i wouldn't take him with one of the top three picks in a K league)
Alfonso Soriano
Mark Teixeira
David Ortiz
Miguel Cabrera
Derrick Lee
Carlos Delgado
Richie Sexson
Corey Patterson
Jim Thome
Adam Dunn (OK, here's one i would let someone else take, unless he's around in the 15th)
Jim Edmonds
Jason Bay
Travis Hafner
Bret Boone
Preston Wilson

The key is making sure you don't sacrifice all your power. HR hitters are often free-swingers, more prone to strikeout. You'll find that your power can take a big hit if you get too preoccupied with strikeouts. Just try to maintain some balance, so you can get a good all-around team. Aim for the middle of the pack in strikeouts.
duckbillgates
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1216
Joined: 1 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: under a dead Ohio sky

Postby Members Only Jackets » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:02 pm

Does this change things? Here's the scoring system:

Hitters:
1.      Single = 1 point
2.      Double = 2 points
3.      Triple = 3 points
4.      Home Run = 4 points
5.      Steals = 1 point
6.      Runs/ RBI = 1 point each
7.      Walks = 1 point
8.      Strikeouts = -1 point each
Members Only Jackets
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 7167
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Lofunzo » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:11 pm

Members Only Jackets wrote:Does this change things? Here's the scoring system:

Hitters:
1.      Single = 1 point
2.      Double = 2 points
3.      Triple = 3 points
4.      Home Run = 4 points
5.      Steals = 1 point
6.      Runs/ RBI = 1 point each
7.      Walks = 1 point
8.      Strikeouts = -1 point each


FWIW, I just compared Dunn and Pierre in your scoring system based on last year's stats and Pierre outscored Dunn 480-449.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Postby Members Only Jackets » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:46 pm

Thanks Lofunzo....does that mean you have a higher regard for Dunn based on my leagues scoring system?
Members Only Jackets
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar

Posts: 7167
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Postby Lofunzo » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:02 pm

Members Only Jackets wrote:Thanks Lofunzo....does that mean you have a higher regard for Dunn based on my leagues scoring system?


Not really. It basically means that I have a higher regard for Pierre. :-) Dunn really has to stroke it to make them even.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2015 MLB season starts in 11:39 hours
(and 92 days)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact