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Ordonez - Rumored to Detroit???

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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:07 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:As for Detroit attracting talent - that is such hogwash. Illitch has proven time and again he can get the top players aroung the NHL to take a shot at a title in Motown.

Also - maybe you havent heard about the new Detroit- not only do they have the Casino's and beautiful new parks, but their Mayor is a pimp. ;-D

:-D


So all the poor people who finally got enough money to buy a hosue now have somewhere else to lose it all :-D Take away a city's main source of jobs, throw in a casino, et voila! Instant economic success :-D


no no - You also have to have a Playa Mayor to pull it off. ;-D

As for Infante - what numbers are you looking at? He had his cup of coffee in 2002, played sparingly as another youngster thrown into the mix too early in the 2003 disaster, and wasnt even the fulltime starter last yr until Vina went down a month into the season. Are those pre 2004 numbers what you are using to project with him? Id say thats flawed from the start - of course he wasnt placed into a situation where he could excell prior to 2004. His breakout actually occurred in winterball 2003. He carried that through ST even though he wasnt given the job until Vina went down. Last yr - his first full yr - he obviously had a great yr - he finished about mid pack for rookies - 15th overall 2B in fantasy terms. He really started to tire toward the end of the yr - which was to be expected of course.

That was what he was projected to be as a prospect - light power, decent avg, good defense, good speed - basically a slightly above avg 2B. For more evidence, he did it again this winter as he hit well over .300 in the Venezualan (sp?) league. What should you expect from him this season? about 20 hrs, 75-85 Rs, 50-60 RBIs, 15-20 SBs, .270 BA.

I still think he'll be one of the best true fantasy sleepers because of the lack of recognition he has recieved at the national level.
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:17 pm

I don't know what you're looking at... but he's struggled the past 3 years to have a .300 OBA. That is very bad, and I don't think many MLB players have an OBA that low. I doubt any starters do. Yeah he's young but still, he was very bad last year and there's no reason to expect the HR's to continue. Even looking at his 2003 numbers - not MLB which were horrible as well, but AAA, he had a .299 OBA and his SLG was even lower than that. I don't see potential there, I just see a guy who has had emotional problems and can't hit very well at all.
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Postby ensanimal » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:34 pm

ordonez is still linked to texas as well. looks like some team workouts are coming up....

Magglio Ordoñez - OF - CWS


Out of the market for Carlos Delgado, the Rangers are now interest in making Magglio Ordonez their designated hitter.
Ordonez is expected to work out for interested clubs within the next 10 days, and the Rangers plan to be there. Jan. 25 - 2:10 pm et
Source: Dallas Morning News
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:40 pm

Jackal - you're really placing too much emphasis on his past statistics - the kid just turned 23 about a month ago. This is one of those instances where you need to look deeper than the stats and see what has really happened. I fully appreciate your expertise with statistics, but this is one of those times where a small sample size and extenuating circumstances like being called up too early and rushing through the farm are going to distort what has actually happened. He has taken that next step. His power wasnt a fluke - as he continued to show it most of last yr and through this winter. But you say it was a fluke because his 2002 stats - as a 20 yr old - didnt suggest it? Maybe it was when he was 21 that you are basing your projections on him? Do you see what Im saying?
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Postby davidmarver » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:52 pm

Detroit really has something going if they do sign Magglio. I still think they could use a veteran starter though...someone a little better than Johnson, but I don't see anyone on the market that would fit too well.
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:54 pm

If he had ever done anthing making him worthy of expecting a decent season, OK. But throughout A ball, AA, AAA, and MLB, he's shown no ability to hit whatsoever, and no power at all until last season's display. If you want to project a .260 BA, 10 HR, and very few R, OK. But you're making it sound like he could be considered to start in a 12 team league.

He's young, but he's very bad hitter! There are lots of 23 year olds who actually have some history of success at the lower levels and the majors, why focus on him? Usually you seem unbiased but i think you're looking through orange coloured glasses.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:08 pm

LBJackal wrote:He's young, but he's very bad hitter! There are lots of 23 year olds who actually have some history of success at the lower levels and the majors, why focus on him? Usually you seem unbiased but i think you're looking through orange coloured glasses.


Jackal - why would I take a guy who is projected to do well in the majors over a guy who did do well in the majors? He did put up the power, the speed, and a decent avg at the ML level - and he's done it consecutive yrs in winterball - yet you still go back to when he was a 20 yr old and the scouts werent hip to him yet and you suggest taking guys who project they might be able to do it but havent yet.

I dont think Ive ever said to draft him high, all Ive said is he is a great sleeper - an end of the draft pick - and he's SS/2B eligible. What more do you want? Do I think he will end up a top 12 2B? yup. I know, I know, thats so crazy of me - especially considering his 15th place finish last yr at the ripe age of 22. ;-7
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:11 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:why would I take a guy who is projected to do well in the majors over a guy who did do well in the majors?


He didn't do well in the majors! Ah well, go ahead and draft him, I've said all there is to say about him :-D
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:18 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:why would I take a guy who is projected to do well in the majors over a guy who did do well in the majors?


He didn't do well in the majors! Ah well, go ahead and draft him, I've said all there is to say about him :-D


jackal - can you comment on his 2002 when he hit well over .300 and had a OBP of .360 as a 20 year old? Or, are you concentrating on 2003 specifically when he was shifting back and forth between both teams and positions? ;-7

Youve got a weak argument there Jackal - admit it.
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:32 pm

He had 72 AB's in 2002. Looking at the other 2300+ AB's in his career (including his more recent 700+ MLB AB's where he hit .251) I find it hard to believe he's anything more than a scrub MI who might hit a dozen HR with a bad BA. He's young, that's all he has going for him. Like I said, you draft him. Don't let me stop you.
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