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New form of DIPS

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Postby Tavish » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:22 pm

One of the most aggrevating thing I had with trying to do pitcher evaluations is the lack of full statistics on them. There is just no where near the attention to detail that is given to hitters. When you can't even determine a pitcher's slg% against without indepth research something is wrong.

Going just on the data available from Lahman there probably isn't a whole lot you can add to it.
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:29 pm

Yeah Lahman didn't even have a team's total BFP or HBP for pitchers. I had to go put them in manually from Baseball-Reference.com which took forever. I only went back to 1990 for them though, otherwise it would have taken way too long.

And DK I look at the ESPN G/F ratios as a reference but there's no way I could get them for every player back to 1990, or even back any amount of years.

I edited my post above but you guys replied too fast so you probably didn't see it. I said:

Just got an idea: what about the player's individual IPAvg, or the ratio of his IPAvg to his team's IPAvg?
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:33 pm

LBJackal wrote:Yeah Lahman didn't even have a team's total BFP or HBP for pitchers.

BFP and HBP are both listed in the Lahman DB. ;-D
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:36 pm

Amazinz wrote:
LBJackal wrote:Yeah Lahman didn't even have a team's total BFP or HBP for pitchers.

BFP and HBP are both listed in the Lahman DB. ;-D


Only for players, not teams. And HBP only go back to 2000 I think. Unless I have some weird version of the database, but I think I have the newest one.
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:41 pm

I'm not sure what version of the database you have :-D but in mine (the special one :-b) HBP data goes back as far as the late 1800s. Now for team data why can't you just run a query for every player who was on that team? For instance (in pseudo-code) SELECT BFP WHERE Team=NYN and Year=2004.
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:56 pm

Amazinz wrote:Now for team data why can't you just run a query for every player who was on that team? For instance (in pseudo-code) SELECT BFP WHERE Team=NYN and Year=2004.


Because I don't know how to do that :*)

Could I do that for every team quickly enough? 30 teams * 15 years that's 450 formulas I'd have to put in. Ah well, it's done now. And why didn't Lahman just do that himself - include the Team BFP and HBP? Argggh.
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:15 pm

I'd work it up but if you don't need it now I won't worry about it.

As for the DB, I'm not sure why they don't include some advanced functionality. I've thrown around the idea of writing to him about contributing to that aspect of the database but it's not really a task I want to take on alone. I'd also like to see Holds and Blown Saves data added.
Maine has a good swing for a pitcher but on anything that moves, he has no chance. And if it's a fastball, it has to be up in the zone. Basically, the pitcher has to hit his bat. - Mike Pelfrey
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Postby prose749 » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:27 pm

wow, baseball has suddenly become very complicated to me. I'll just take your word on this one.
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:33 pm

OK this got lost in the shuffle again. Anybody think it would be useful:

LBJackal wrote:Just got an idea: what about the player's individual IPAvg, or the ratio of his IPAvg to his team's IPAvg?


???
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Postby Tavish » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:43 pm

LBJackal wrote:OK this got lost in the shuffle again. Anybody think it would be useful:

LBJackal wrote:Just got an idea: what about the player's individual IPAvg, or the ratio of his IPAvg to his team's IPAvg?


???


Isn't the premise behind the theory that BABIP is not under the control of the pitcher? Introducing player IPAvg into the mix would go heavily against that.
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