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My take on the NY Mets

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Postby CubsFan7724 » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:37 pm

DK wrote:
FatGuyWithAMullet wrote:Okay now I am so confused, Aren't the Mets that team last year that was 25 games out in the NL East? Were they not the same team that thought they had what it took last Spring and the Spring before and the Spring before after signing a lot of high priced guys?

I just don't see the big upgrade here. Sure it sounds nice, but the Yankees did much more by getting RJ. He is a stud, and again makes the Yankees the king of New York and most likely baseball.

As far as the Mets go, they are just trying to be noticed in their own town. Okay, time to go continue drinking now - good night.


Same team, many different players. Delgado ain't Mo Vaughn (and yes, I know Delgado isn't a Met- yet- but hypothetically). Beltran, as much as I think he is overpriced, is still a good player. Pedro is the best pitcher in baseball (don't disagree with me, I'm way too tired of arguing this).

RJ isn't Pedro. RJ is 42 and pitching off of a plastic knee. I see injuries or downfall this year.


FatGuyWithAMullet wrote:What if Pedro's arm goes out like everyone seems to think it could on every pitch? What if Beltran hits .265 like last year but only hits 25 HR's?


What if Chipper retires tomorrow? What if the Braves don't win this year? What if you're just bitter? What if there's no point to talking about this?

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...
You cant seriously think Pedro is the best pitched in baseball now, do you? Theres a man in Minnesota named Johan Santana that blows Pedros current numbers out of the water and is much younger, too.
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Postby acapulco » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:37 pm

I'm not so optimistic about Pedro. He gave up more hrs last season than the previous 3 combined. His ERA on 5 or more days rest was vintage Pedro. On the usual amount of rest, it was well over 4.00 He may be pitching in a pitcher's park next year, but so is the opposing pitcher. I don't see Pedro winning the 16 games he did this year.
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Postby cartman1_24 » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:38 pm

Ok, I know this is a little petty to say but...are the Mets nuts? Beltran and Boras snubbed the only other bidder in the Beltran sweepstakes last night and the Mets still rushed to sign him for $17M a year??? The Yankees finally saw the moths flying out of their wallets and bowed out of the bidding Sat. The Cubs couldn't afford Beltran so long as Sosa was still in town and his only seriously rumored destination was Shea.

It sure seems to me that the Mets nearly had the market cornered on Beltran and still rushed to sign him to a HUGE deal. 8-o It would have been to their best interest to have used this leverage plus the upcoming Jan 11 signing bonus loophole closure deadline to save a little money in this deal for signing say Delgado. For once a team seemingly had Boras by the jewels and yet he comes out smelling like a rose. What an agent!

I guess star power does sell...
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Postby Tribe-Fan » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:48 pm

Here is the transcript from an actual conversation I was eavesdropping on at a local sports-based watering hole late last season. There were 3 guys sitting at the bar, 2 were talking, the 3rd appeared to be passed out in his beer. I made up the names because I don’t know what they were.


Bob: “Man these Mets suck. Every move they make blows up in their face.”

Tom: “Yeah, I know what you mean. The deal their best prospect for some stiff and it turns out the guy is hurt. They have no clue over there”

Bob: “Yeah, and remember the Mo Vaughn and Alomar fiascos?”

Tom: That’s what I’m talking about. Simply terrible management.”

Stevie (the drunk one): **mumbled something inaudible and unintelligible**

Bob: “Yeah, not like the Braves. Look at them, everyone wrote them off after losing Sheff and Lopez but there they are, right back on top.”

Tom: “Now that is a class organization. Year in-year out they are right there.”

Stevie (the drunk one): **mumbled something inaudible and unintelligible**

Bob: “When you are looking at organizations, I guess you have the Braves as one end of the spectrum and the Mets at the other.”

Tom: “Yeah, the ying and the yang I suppose you could say”.

Stevie (the drunk one): **mumbled something inaudible and unintelligible**

Bob: “Damn it Stevie, speak up will you, no one can understand you.”

Stevie (the drunk one): “How many rings?”

Tom: “What?”

Stevie (the drunk one): “How many rings?”

Bob: “What the hell do you mean how many rings??!!”

Stevie (the drunk one): “In the last 20 years, how many rings have these miserable, poorly run Mets won?”

Tom: “One”.

Stevie (the drunk one): “And the Braves, this stellar model of a superior organization, how many have they won in the last 20 years?”

Bob: “One”.

Stevie (the drunk one): “Now shut the hell up and let me sleep”.


I am not a Met fan, but I felt this fit the conversation.
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Postby DK » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:52 pm

CubsFan7724 wrote:You cant seriously think Pedro is the best pitched in baseball now, do you? Theres a man in Minnesota named Johan Santana that blows Pedros current numbers out of the water and is much younger, too.


Yeah... in 2004. Pedro is better in every other year. Johan needs to show it to me more than one year before I can say he's the best.

Johan had a great 2004. Pedro had a good 2004, a great 2003, a dominant 2002, an injury-plagued but dominant while in 2001, and by far the best pitcher's year ever in 2000.

acapulco wrote:I'm not so optimistic about Pedro. He gave up more hrs last season than the previous 3 combined. His ERA on 5 or more days rest was vintage Pedro. On the usual amount of rest, it was well over 4.00 He may be pitching in a pitcher's park next year, but so is the opposing pitcher. I don't see Pedro winning the 16 games he did this year.


Pedro's moving from a big HR park in the AL in one of the toughest divisions to the best pitcher's HR park in the NL in one of the weakest divisions. It's not anything to worry about.
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:00 pm

FatGuyWithAMullet wrote:Sure it sounds nice, but the Yankees did much more by getting RJ. He is a stud, and again makes the Yankees the king of New York and most likely baseball.

Good for the Yankees but really it doesn't matter. That rivalry exists mostly in the media. The Yankees can be Kings of NY and the Mets will settle for being Kings of Atlanta. :-b
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:19 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:Only with those rose colored glasses on. First off Delgado is not signed and likely headed to the O's from all accounts. Secondly Reyes and Floyd can't stay healthy. Piazza is well past his prime...so is Glavine. Cameron is a K machine...Rob Deer with a glove. Pedro's arm could just as easily fall off in the next 3 years as anything else. No one said they were an awful team and in the NL East they could compete. But they are far from everything coming up roses.


I agree with that. They have a good team on paper, but that's all it is, on paper. Alot of those guys are old and have been declining as well as some of the other things TheYanks mentioned.

They do have something to look forward to this season, though...
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Postby Amazinz » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:26 pm

ajgnydc722 wrote:I agree with that. They have a good team on paper, but that's all it is, on paper. Alot of those guys are old and have been declining as well as some of the other things TheYanks mentioned.

You're absolutely right. Paper doesn't mean a thing. Look at the Yankees last year. Anyway the future looks pretty exciting with Reyes/Wright/Beltran. That could be the core of a team for a long time. ;-D
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:33 pm

DK wrote:
CubsFan7724 wrote:You cant seriously think Pedro is the best pitched in baseball now, do you? Theres a man in Minnesota named Johan Santana that blows Pedros current numbers out of the water and is much younger, too.


Yeah... in 2004. Pedro is better in every other year. Johan needs to show it to me more than one year before I can say he's the best.

Johan had a great 2004. Pedro had a good 2004, a great 2003, a dominant 2002, an injury-plagued but dominant while in 2001, and by far the best pitcher's year ever in 2000.

acapulco wrote:I'm not so optimistic about Pedro. He gave up more hrs last season than the previous 3 combined. His ERA on 5 or more days rest was vintage Pedro. On the usual amount of rest, it was well over 4.00 He may be pitching in a pitcher's park next year, but so is the opposing pitcher. I don't see Pedro winning the 16 games he did this year.


Pedro's moving from a big HR park in the AL in one of the toughest divisions to the best pitcher's HR park in the NL in one of the weakest divisions. It's not anything to worry about.
Notice how I said now, by meaning 05, not 03, 02, 01 whatever. He isn't the best pitcher in baseball anymore by any means. If you think that, then you are lying to yourself.
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Postby Music2004Man » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:18 pm

I agree that Wright/Reyes/Beltran is a great foundatuon. It would have been great to have Kazmir to help them out but hopefully Benson and Zambrano will work out.
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