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Postby El Gaupo » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:58 pm

I read briefly through this thread and I didn't see it mentioned anywhere...

But steriods are illegal Playing professional sports should not exempt one from the law.

having said that the stronger argument is that players who do not use illegal drugs are at a greater disadvantage to those who do.
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Postby lesgrant » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:05 pm

The main issue is, as mentioned, safety combined with setting a standard for competition.

But, the originator of this thread touched upon a sentiment that most fans don’t want to admit. When the athlete’s career is over, no one really cares about their overall well being. I think that is the saddest, but true, statement about our society. Our athletes and entertainers are so disposable to us that, not only are their talents disposable, but their very lives as well.

A similar sentiment manifested itself in the Pistons/Pacers brawl. There were some fans who felt that they had the right to throw objects and attempt to assault players on the court. I’m not defending Artest et al., but there seems to be a lot of disrespect heaped on athletes that has crossed the line.

One of the excuses for this stuff is the fact that athletes make ridiculous amounts of money. Another of the media’s favorite comments is that throwing beer on players has always happened. Does the fact that someone makes 10 million a year mean that those of us who don’t have the right to treat them as less than human? Does the fact that someone has been abused in the past justify the abuse of another now?

No matter what, they are all human beings just like us. How would you feel if your father was Lyle Alzado? How would his steroid abuse affect you now that you would have to grow up without a father, all for the sake of entertaining a bunch of strangers? Well, by our standards now, I’m guessing the response would be ‘at least you have Lyle’s inheritance.’

I’m not sure if the originator of this thread really doesn’t give a hoot about his favorite players after they are gone from the game or he said it to facilitate the debate. But it would be a sick form of Karmic justice if his son/daughter started taking them because they saw daddy’s favorite player on them. Adults using steroids are one thing, but kids still growing physically and mentally abusing this stuff just to get a scholarship to college would be the greatest tragedy in sports.
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:32 pm

many things to say here.

I say juice em up and let em go. I pay good money to be entertained by these guys, and they get paid HUGE money to play........Pro athletes are paid to entertain me. I want to see the best of the best. If somebody wants to enhance their ability with supplements so be it.



home runs do not entertain me. drama entertains me. you dont need 8 home runs a game to create drama. baseball was a good and entertaining game before steroids were invented and it will continue to be so when steroids are eradicated from the game.


Many people use a form of steriods and have zero side effects from them. Its the abuse where people get into trouble.


that is not true. the form of steroids people take for medical purposes, like prednizone, are not the same form that athletes take. additionally, they can have significant side effects because people react differently to them. that is why you need a prescription and regular check ups with doctors when you have been prescribed a steroid. additionally, steroids approved for medical use do not have significant body building attributes.


so what is the difference if our athletes bulk up one way or the other?


for one, supplements are legal and steroids are illegal. not only are steroids banned by baseball but it is a crime to possess them. due to insufficient regulation, some supplements may actually be harmful. eventually though, like ephedra, they will get banned.

there are several issues. first in my mind is health. promoting the use of chemical coctails that will drastically harm your health for the sake of sports improvement is a horrible ideology in my opinion. in addition to needless illness, suffering and death, other effects such as increased health care costs may occur. furthermore, if everyone is on the juice and everyone is jacking 80 home runs a year then 80 home runs a year will no longer be entertaining and the game will lose its entertainment value to those that value that sort of achievement. another issue is that that the succesful athlete will no longer be the one with the most talent or the most will to succeed but the one with the most money to spend on drugs. maybe it is just me but i prefer to reward someone who works hard as opposed to someone who was merely born into a rich family and could afford the latest technology.


...as far as I know the most anticipated event in the summer olympics is the 100 metres, and that wouldn't be as exciting if it weren't for roids.


i think it would be. a close race makes it dramatic and entertaining. the runners would still be running ridiculously fast. the 100 was a popular and entertaining race long before performance enhancing drugs entered the scene.
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Postby coachdino » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:34 pm

I wanted this thread to cause controversy, hence the Subject title. To clarify my point of view, I am TOTALLY against steroids. If I found out one of my players was on roids I would do everything I could to educate them about the POISON they are putting into their body. Once I thought I informed them as much as possible I would tell them thanks for coming out, come back when you are clean. I also agree that seeing 8 h.r.'s a game is not entertaining. I enjoy a 1-0 or 2-1 game alot more then a 13-12 homerun fest. I have never seen Edmonds play live, but I could whatch him everyday. Bring back guys like Ozzy Smith and Griffy in his prime tracking down fly balls.
Some people think it is only the power players who benefit from roids. The biggest advantage of roids is how it affects the bodies ability to recover. You don't get bigger by roids alone, combining them with a proper training program will increase body mass. However, if you combine them with the proper program they can also turn you into lean machine who can run like the wind.
As far as the 100 metres being entertaining because it is a close race and not because the athletes are running record times, is a bunch of hog-wash IMO. How many times have you seen networks push the fact that "X" number of world records have been set at such & such an event. People want to see close races run as fast as possible. The race against the clock is far more entertaining then the race itself.
I started this thread for entertainment purposes...I hope it worked :-D
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Postby j_d_mcnugent » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:22 pm

coachdino wrote: As far as the 100 metres being entertaining because it is a close race and not because the athletes are running record times, is a bunch of hog-wash IMO. How many times have you seen networks push the fact that "X" number of world records have been set at such & such an event. People want to see close races run as fast as possible. The race against the clock is far more entertaining then the race itself.


people want to see records and seeing records does create excitement and enhance the experience. however, making the runners/athletes clean wouldnt detract from the experience. performances would sinmply be judged against different standards.

if steroids/other drugs never entered the sport then fast times would still be run and records would still be broken. the only difference is that we would be getting excited about breaking 10 seconds instead of 9.8. if steroids/other drugs were merely effectively removed from future competiton people would get excited about legitimate records being broken. i guess it might be somewhat of a let down not seeing a 9.8 but those that are truly dissatisfied are those that dont know anything about the sport. they are the casual fans like the people that just show up at wrigley because they want to be seen on tv talking on their cell phone, and i could care less what those people think.

if you want a baseball analogy try out this one. roger maris hit 61 in 1961. mays hit 52 in 1965. we didnt see 50 again until foster hit 52 in 1977 and fielder hit 51 in 1990. yet i remember those totals after maris as being considerably exciting and creating a lot of buzz even though they never came close to setting any records. that is because the context in which they occurred. can you tell me no one will be excited when the first post steroid testing 60 homer season happens or will people say its not a record so i dont care?
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Postby JDD » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:11 am

I'll have some of what Ken Jennings is taking...
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:05 am

LBJackal wrote:The problem I have with this, is it puts players who want to earn a living playing baseball without risking their lives at a bid disadvantage. I have no sympathy for players who use drugs; when they die at age 40 that sucks, but it's their own fault.


I can't think of anything I've agreed with anything here at the Cafe more than I agree with that. ;-D
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:40 am

The Economist had a great piece on this... I'd post it, but there are copyright issues. They also thing steroids should be legal, and they are also in favor of legalizing prostitution and drugs. I'm in favor of the latter two, not the former.
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