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How about some criticism of Beane?

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Postby Bloody Nipples » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:07 am

I liked both trades, but I think Beane should have waited one more year on Mulder. Hudson was traded at the right time because he has only one year left on his contract, but Mulder has two years left. The talent he got in return was as good as he could get, but I think he should have waited one more year.
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Postby HOOTIE » Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:38 am

MULLET would like to hear your eyes theory.

Beane has drafted ok. He followed Zito up, by getting Crosby and Bonderman the next year. Ryan has done well, although passing up the overhelming top pick (Prior) is questionable.

It's funny that a Cubsfan says winning it all is required. The Cubs have the longest streak of not winning a WS. Hendry is ok, but alot of his fruits came from the Cubs being so bad. Wood was the 4th pick in draft, and they lucked into Prior at the 2nd pick. Beane hasn't had many early picks (Zito 9th). Usually picks 20th+ in 1st round.
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Postby Lofunzo » Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:20 am

RAmst23 wrote:Why force a young Harden to become the #2


Beane is on record as saying that Harden is the #1 next year with Zito as the #2. 8-o
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:38 pm

HOOTIE wrote:MULLET would like to hear your eyes theory.

Beane has drafted ok. He followed Zito up, by getting Crosby and Bonderman the next year. Ryan has done well, although passing up the overhelming top pick (Prior) is questionable.

It's funny that a Cubsfan says winning it all is required. The Cubs have the longest streak of not winning a WS. Hendry is ok, but alot of his fruits came from the Cubs being so bad. Wood was the 4th pick in draft, and they lucked into Prior at the 2nd pick. Beane hasn't had many early picks (Zito 9th). Usually picks 20th+ in 1st round.
Whats so funny about saying winning is required? You think I like watching them fail miserably? I have never seen the Cubs in a World Series, and neither have my parents. Much less win a world series. When you have gone through that long without seeing your favorite team win anything, and usually blow it in some crazy way, winning IS required.
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Postby FatGuyWithAMullet » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:02 pm

I don't have an "Eyes Theory" HOOTIE, but the fact of the matter is that many things cannot be quantified. I know some people in the financial industry and believe me when I say they wish they could plug almost anything into an multi-variate equation and it would then spit out a conclusion for them, but that is just not the case. There is more to this game than just cold hard numbers, and cannot be summarized by statistics. Quantitative data is not perfect - it is what it is - only a snapshot of reality and history, not the whole picture.

Like I said before, I really don't have anything against sabermetrics, but I do have a problem with people who think that statistics are the only acceptable baseball language and traditional methods are flawed.
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Postby LCBOY » Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:16 pm

wrveres wrote:Correct me if I am wrong ... ( I am sure you will) .. ;-7

Jason Giambi drafted By Oakland in the summer of 1992
Miguel Tejada drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1994
Eric Chavez drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1997
Tim Hudson drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1997

William Beane becomes GM on October 17, 1997.

In 1998 he drafted .. 1st round (2nd pick) Mark Mulder
In 1999 he drafted .. 1st round (9th pick) Barry Zito

so what exactly has Beane done again? I am confused ...
I mean we all know he has never "WON" anything except a couple of AL West Pennants. He has never won a playoff series. At least La Russa took the A's to the World Series a few times.
So what exactly has Beane done? I mean after 7 years shouldn't we now be seeing the "Fruit" from his so called "Genius drafts"? Hell the only thing Beane has actually provided us with is Barry Zito, and I am pretty sure that nobody needed a speadsheet to show that Barry Zito was going to be good.


I'll correct you because you are wrong. :-D Though Beane didn't become the GM until after those picks he was the Assistant GM to Sandy Alderson when those picks were made. He was a big part of those picks. Also, Alderson was a Bill James guy. He was probably the first GM to attempt to incorporate sabermetric analysis as part of their draft selections.

Also, La Russa was the field manager and not the general manager, so the comparison is meaningless. Also, When the A's won the 1989 WS I believe they had one of the highest or the highest payroll in baseball in 1988-90.
Last edited by LCBOY on Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby thomasps3 » Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:34 pm

Really funny thing that is quite often overlooked....Beane turned down Boston's GM position when the current ownership took over. So the thing that really gets me is that he prefers to be idol-worshipped for being in a small-market, and also, he wants his horn tooted for him as much as possible. I'm sure he loves any and all articles written about him....
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Postby Amazinz » Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:37 pm

Or maybe he just prefers Oakland over Boston...
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Postby Jivedude » Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:48 pm

Amazinz wrote:Or maybe he just prefers Oakland over Boston...


Yeah family concerns were the main issue there. He didn't want to move his family all the way across the country.

ESPN 11/10/02 wrote:"For what the Red Sox deserve, I cannot give it to them," Beane told ESPN's Peter Gammons on Sunday night. "John Henry and the Red Sox were great to me. They were willing to pay me more money than I could believe. But it's more than money, I've never been about money. I made one decision based on money in my life -- when I signed with the Mets rather than go to Stanford -- and I promised I'd never do it again."

Beane had been assured by the Red Sox that he could spend part of the season in Newport Beach, Calif., close to his 13-year-old daughter Casey, Gammons reported.

Earlier in the day Sunday, Beane spoke with Gammons about the possibility of joining the Red Sox. Beane told Gammons that while he had agreed in principle to terms with the team, he and his family were still deciding whether or not to make the move. They apparently decided against it

But within hours of the agreement came the remorse. "I kept thinking about how the decision may impact so many people," Beane said. "This was great for me in terms of more money than I ever could have dreamed of, being with perhaps the best franchise in the game and working for a man in (Red Sox president) John Henry who is one of the finest people I've ever met, but it struck me that it isn't just about me.


"The most important thing for me is my wife Tara and my daughter Casey, and to put what I need to put into that franchise -- and what they should expect -- might impact my marriage and my family. And I can't let that happen. The Red Sox deserve more than my being in Newport Beach part time. I can't do anything halfway, and the Red Sox deserve more. Casey was great with my going to Boston, but she is 13, and here she's an hour away. For whatever happens, there's something to be said for that
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Postby RugbyD » Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:48 pm

thomasps3 wrote:Really funny thing that is quite often overlooked....Beane turned down Boston's GM position when the current ownership took over. So the thing that really gets me is that he prefers to be idol-worshipped for being in a small-market, and also, he wants his horn tooted for him as much as possible. I'm sure he loves any and all articles written about him....


If I was him, I'd turn it down too. Boston was suffering for a championship, and as has already been discussed in this thread, no GM can just tote in a championship. Payroll helps but its no guarantee. Everyon would say he sucks if he didn't pull one off in short order b/c they would assume a bigger payroll is all he needs. It's hard to think a GM thrives on championships. If that were true we'd see a lot more suicides. It seems that Beane thrives on the challenge of producing winners on a tight budget. Its hard to have fun at your job if you can do it with your eyes closed (Cashman) (please excuse the hyperbole).
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