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How about some criticism of Beane?

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Postby Bloody Nipples » Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:29 pm

willieroe wrote:
Bloody Nipples wrote:And for cubs fans, you have accepted competitive. Every year you are competitive, but you never win. And you have accepted that, or else the Chicago fan base would have driven the Cubs out a long time ago.


BUZZ! Wrong answer!

2003-2004 was the first time the Cubs have completed back-to-back winning seasons since the early 1970s. The Cubs fan base accepts mediocrity because (1) hey, it's beautiful Wrigley Field, one of the best ballparks in the nation, and (2) the alternative is watching the White Sox. :-D


OK, then that even further proves my point. The cubs fans have almost accepted mediocrity, so beane would be great for you guys.
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Postby willieroe » Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:54 pm

Bloody Nipples wrote:OK, then that even further proves my point. The cubs fans have almost accepted mediocrity, so beane would be great for you guys.

Well, to me, Jim Hendry is the best GM the Cubs have had in a long time - and besides, don't you need a manager that will buy into the "Moneyball" strategy? :-D
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Postby RugbyD » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:09 pm

Ha, we could use a separate thread for Dusty "Never Hit&Run" Baker". He would have to go if Beane was our GM.
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Postby wrveres » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:21 pm

Correct me if I am wrong ... ( I am sure you will) .. ;-7

Jason Giambi drafted By Oakland in the summer of 1992
Miguel Tejada drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1994
Eric Chavez drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1997
Tim Hudson drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1997

William Beane becomes GM on October 17, 1997.

In 1998 he drafted .. 1st round (2nd pick) Mark Mulder
In 1999 he drafted .. 1st round (9th pick) Barry Zito

so what exactly has Beane done again? I am confused ...
I mean we all know he has never "WON" anything except a couple of AL West Pennants. He has never won a playoff series. At least La Russa took the A's to the World Series a few times.
So what exactly has Beane done? I mean after 7 years shouldn't we now be seeing the "Fruit" from his so called "Genius drafts"? Hell the only thing Beane has actually provided us with is Barry Zito, and I am pretty sure that nobody needed a speadsheet to show that Barry Zito was going to be good.
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Postby Bloody Nipples » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:33 pm

wrveres wrote:Correct me if I am wrong ... ( I am sure you will) .. ;-7

Jason Giambi drafted By Oakland in the summer of 1992
Miguel Tejada drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1994
Eric Chavez drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1997
Tim Hudson drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1997

William Beane becomes GM on October 17, 1997.

In 1998 he drafted .. 1st round (2nd pick) Mark Mulder
In 1999 he drafted .. 1st round (9th pick) Barry Zito

so what exactly has Beane done again? I am confused ...
I mean we all know he has never "WON" anything except a couple of AL West Pennants. He has never won a playoff series. At least La Russa took the A's to the World Series a few times.
So what exactly has Beane done? I mean after 7 years shouldn't we now be seeing the "Fruit" from his so called "Genius drafts"? Hell the only thing Beane has actually provided us with is Barry Zito, and I am pretty sure that nobody needed a speadsheet to show that Barry Zito was going to be good.


Some interesting notes, wrveres. But I still think you are missing the WHY of this stuff. Do you agree that if the A's had been able to resign any of the guys they produce they would much better right now? I hope so.

Here is Beane's (and the A's) dilemma: ownership gives him only about $60K per year to work with. Therefore, he cant resign the guys he finds like Mulder who would ask for big contracts in free agency. So, he trades them for prospects or lets them go to free agency in exchange for draft picks. The result is an enormous turnover in the A's system. New players are constantly being thrown into the lineup year after year. The only veterans on Beane's teams are no-name guys who he gets on the cheap like Matt Stairs.

To me its a miracle that the A's win as much as they do. It is my opinion that, given a more flexible budget, allowing Beane to take part in such gm activities as big-name-free-agent-signing, blockbuster-trading, etc, that he would win a WS within a few years and sustain that excellence for a while. He would find not only the talent for the best VALUE, but the best talent OVERALL.
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Postby wrveres » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:41 pm

Bloody Nipples wrote:
wrveres wrote:Correct me if I am wrong ... ( I am sure you will) .. ;-7

Jason Giambi drafted By Oakland in the summer of 1992
Miguel Tejada drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1994
Eric Chavez drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1997
Tim Hudson drafted by Oakland in the summer of 1997

William Beane becomes GM on October 17, 1997.

In 1998 he drafted .. 1st round (2nd pick) Mark Mulder
In 1999 he drafted .. 1st round (9th pick) Barry Zito

so what exactly has Beane done again? I am confused ...
I mean we all know he has never "WON" anything except a couple of AL West Pennants. He has never won a playoff series. At least La Russa took the A's to the World Series a few times.
So what exactly has Beane done? I mean after 7 years shouldn't we now be seeing the "Fruit" from his so called "Genius drafts"? Hell the only thing Beane has actually provided us with is Barry Zito, and I am pretty sure that nobody needed a speadsheet to show that Barry Zito was going to be good.


Some interesting notes, wrveres. But I still think you are missing the WHY of this stuff. Do you agree that if the A's had been able to resign any of the guys they produce they would much better right now? I hope so.

Here is Beane's (and the A's) dilemma: ownership gives him only about $60K per year to work with. Therefore, he cant resign the guys he finds like Mulder who would ask for big contracts in free agency. So, he trades them for prospects or lets them go to free agency in exchange for draft picks. The result is an enormous turnover in the A's system. New players are constantly being thrown into the lineup year after year. The only veterans on Beane's teams are no-name guys who he gets on the cheap like Matt Stairs.

To me its a miracle that the A's win as much as they do. It is my opinion that, given a more flexible budget, allowing Beane to take part in such gm activities as big-name-free-agent-signing, blockbuster-trading, etc, that he would win a WS within a few years and sustain that excellence for a while. He would find not only the talent for the best VALUE, but the best talent OVERALL.


I understand all that, I really do ...

Everybody talks about the Bill James system of prospects that Beane practices, but after 7 years, what has Beane given us? ..

Zito !!
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Postby Bloody Nipples » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:48 pm

wrveres wrote:I understand all that, I really do ...

Everybody talks about the Bill James system of prospects that Beane practices, but after 7 years, what has Beane given us? ..

Zito !!


I dont understand your point there.
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Postby Pedantic » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:56 pm

Don't focus on just amateur talent with Beane. Don't forget about the Hattebergs and Bradfords he literally discovered out of nowhere.

On another note, I read Moneyball, but returned it immediately afterward. It was interesting, but not worth that much money. :-b
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Postby wrveres » Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:04 pm

Bloody Nipples wrote:
wrveres wrote:I understand all that, I really do ...

Everybody talks about the Bill James system of prospects that Beane practices, but after 7 years, what has Beane given us? ..

Zito !!


I dont understand your point there.

My Point is that Oakland won those AL Pennants becuase of guys like Giambi, Tejada, Chavez and Hudson ... Guys Beane had nothing to do with .... Sure he found some nice players with decent on base skills, to go around them, but this is and was the heart and soul of the Oakland Playoff runs ..

Isn't one of the aspects of Beanes philosphy to find prospects from College that can help immediatly? .. Well then were are those prospects? Its been 7 years ....
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Postby wrveres » Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:18 pm

Bloody Nipples wrote:
wrveres wrote:I understand all that, I really do ...

Everybody talks about the Bill James system of prospects that Beane practices, but after 7 years, what has Beane given us? ..

Zito !!


I dont understand your point there.


oh, also ... I am struggling with the flu, there forelots of medication, thank you Santa, its exactly what I asked for ... :-o

so I imgaine some of my posts don't really make any sense at all ... sorry in advance ...

I will say they sure make alot of sense while I am typing them though ... ;-D
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