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Sox re sign Varitek 4/40

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Postby LBJackal » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:57 pm

TeamCaptain#2 wrote:Varitek is not worth 10 million, hes not worth 8. In my opinion giving tek 40 over 4 is going to take the red sox out of the beltran race.


Being out of the Beltran race is a good thing IMO. The only downfall is they won't be able to drive up the price for whatever team is short sighted enough to give him a 7 year deal worth more than $13M per season.
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Postby blankman » Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:30 am

thedude wrote:
blankman wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:They surely overpaid for him but with all of the turnover on that roster, they needed him back. :-?


I don't see how despite his salary they and their fans can seem so desparate to get rid of him. Honestly, without Manny, that offense is not longer terribly scary, with Ortiz being the lone player that I as a Yankee fan would be at all afraid of.


they won't get rid of him now, at least i doubt it... the plan was to dump manny on the Mets, rape thier farm system, then take the 20 million plus they saved and invest in Beltre and Drew, and prehaps Delgado.

So they would have had a lineup of:

Damon
Renteria
Beltre
Ortiz
Delgado
Drew
Nixon
Varitek
Mueller

i find that a little scary.


Hmm. $20M saved and you think they'd then be able to spend that on Beltre AND Delgado AND Drew? You've gotta be kidding. Beltre and Drew alone got over $20M.
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Postby GreenMonsterGoon » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:22 am

Actually one scenario did have the sox getting Beltre, Delgado, and Drew. But in that case they would not have signed Renteria or Tek. If I'm right, Beltre didn't get anywheres close to 20mil. Wasn't it like 5/64 mil. In my math world, that equal 12.8 mil. Drew was 5/55 = 11/mil and I would say Delgado will be somewhere in teh 4/50.

Tek 10
Renteria 10

TOTAL = 20 mil

Beltre = 12.8
Drew = 11
Delgaod = 12.5

TOTAL = 36.3

A 16 mil upgrade is doable for the sox. Don't let them kid you about a budget. Just figure out how many of those Faith Rewarded DVDs they sold at $20 and that would cover that cost.
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Postby mtarail » Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:13 pm

I guess this pretty much blows the cover on the people that said that the Sox were playing some version of Moneyball. B-)

They overpaid for Veritek--and I think they overpaid (but much less so) for Renteria. But they got Wade Miller for practically nothing. As far as the players go, I love the team that they've put together this year. ;-D
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Postby El Gaupo » Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:34 am

mtarail wrote:I guess this pretty much blows the cover on the people that said that the Sox were playing some version of Moneyball. B-)

They overpaid for Veritek--and I think they overpaid (but much less so) for Renteria. But they got Wade Miller for practically nothing. As far as the players go, I love the team that they've put together this year. ;-D


Moneyball has become a broad generalization of any team that drafts college players, hitters with high on base percentage etc..
The redsox have done tons of research on a players worth in regard to their defense. Maybe they see value in Varitek that they believe warrants his contract. Or maybe by having players like Bellhorn, Youks, Mueller and Miller allow them to over pay for other players
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Postby mtarail » Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:22 am

El Gaupo wrote:
mtarail wrote:I guess this pretty much blows the cover on the people that said that the Sox were playing some version of Moneyball. B-)

They overpaid for Veritek--and I think they overpaid (but much less so) for Renteria. But they got Wade Miller for practically nothing. As far as the players go, I love the team that they've put together this year. ;-D


Moneyball has become a broad generalization of any team that drafts college players, hitters with high on base percentage etc..
The redsox have done tons of research on a players worth in regard to their defense. Maybe they see value in Varitek that they believe warrants his contract. Or maybe by having players like Bellhorn, Youks, Mueller and Miller allow them to over pay for other players


I'm aware of what "moneyball" is. When you're playing with a budget which, at this point, is second only to the Yanks, and you're passing out $10 mill contracts out like candy--well, IMO then you are completely outside of the scope of decision-making challenges that underly Beane's "Moneyball" strategy. The fact that the Red Sox, like every team including the Yankees, have retained certain valuable low-salary guys like Mueller and Bellhorn doesn't change that fact.
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Postby Lofunzo » Sat Dec 25, 2004 3:29 am

mtarail wrote:
El Gaupo wrote:
mtarail wrote:I guess this pretty much blows the cover on the people that said that the Sox were playing some version of Moneyball. B-)

They overpaid for Veritek--and I think they overpaid (but much less so) for Renteria. But they got Wade Miller for practically nothing. As far as the players go, I love the team that they've put together this year. ;-D


Moneyball has become a broad generalization of any team that drafts college players, hitters with high on base percentage etc..
The redsox have done tons of research on a players worth in regard to their defense. Maybe they see value in Varitek that they believe warrants his contract. Or maybe by having players like Bellhorn, Youks, Mueller and Miller allow them to over pay for other players


I'm aware of what "moneyball" is. When you're playing with a budget which, at this point, is second only to the Yanks, and you're passing out $10 mill contracts out like candy--well, IMO then you are completely outside of the scope of decision-making challenges that underly Beane's "Moneyball" strategy. The fact that the Red Sox, like every team including the Yankees, have retained certain valuable low-salary guys like Mueller and Bellhorn doesn't change that fact.


I agree. The fact that James is on the payroll and they have a puppet in the dugout doesn't change that. ;-D
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Postby thedude » Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:20 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
mtarail wrote:
El Gaupo wrote:
mtarail wrote:I guess this pretty much blows the cover on the people that said that the Sox were playing some version of Moneyball. B-)

They overpaid for Veritek--and I think they overpaid (but much less so) for Renteria. But they got Wade Miller for practically nothing. As far as the players go, I love the team that they've put together this year. ;-D


Moneyball has become a broad generalization of any team that drafts college players, hitters with high on base percentage etc..
The redsox have done tons of research on a players worth in regard to their defense. Maybe they see value in Varitek that they believe warrants his contract. Or maybe by having players like Bellhorn, Youks, Mueller and Miller allow them to over pay for other players


I'm aware of what "moneyball" is. When you're playing with a budget which, at this point, is second only to the Yanks, and you're passing out $10 mill contracts out like candy--well, IMO then you are completely outside of the scope of decision-making challenges that underly Beane's "Moneyball" strategy. The fact that the Red Sox, like every team including the Yankees, have retained certain valuable low-salary guys like Mueller and Bellhorn doesn't change that fact.


I agree. The fact that James is on the payroll and they have a puppet in the dugout doesn't change that. ;-D


they think the leadership he brings to the team is worth that contract. That is why he is the new capt. (which he didn't know about until the press confrence). You pay players for different parts of their game. Tek's leadership is a huge part of his game, a part the BoSOx need. This is one place where stats can't measure the player's value, (sorry Saber folks) but it is a curcail part of the the formula that went into building the World Champoin Team.
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Postby Rkiivs » Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:39 pm

Pacman wrote:
thedude wrote:
jonny bench had never playede less than 114 games in a season when he was 32. after the age of 32 he missed a season injuried and played catcher only 13 more times before retiring at the age of 35. nothing agianst tek, i'm a big fan of the guy, but catchers don't age well.


No doubt, catchers DO break down as they get older. Johnny Bench developed knee problems that eventually ended his career. What I was saying above is SO FAR, only a freak injury (diving) has shelved Tek for any length of time.

There's absolutely risk involved in signing Tek or any 30-something catcher to 4-years. But the fact that they DID sign him speaks volumes about how much Red Sox management values this player.


One thing to consider is that Tek is not an everyday catcher. He'll get days off when Mirabelli catches for Wakefield.

However, I think the Bosox backed themselves into a corner by waiting so long to sign a catcher. They could have snagged a decent catcher earlier in free agency. I would've went with Matheny or Pieryzynski. They're not Tek but Boston can afford to give up the big bat to save cash without hurting that lineup.
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