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So far, which team has made the worst offseason moves?

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So far, which team has made the worst offseason moves?

Arizona
22
32%
Boston
4
6%
NY Mets
20
29%
Los Angles
9
13%
Oakland
12
18%
St. Louis
1
1%
 
Total votes : 68

Postby stevethumb » Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:37 am

as the question is stated, SO FAR, i think the cardinals are having a poor off season..they now have their backup catcher as a starter.. they have no 2nd baseman (HLuna ?)..deckstein instead of renteria..no skline no kcalero no wwilliams no dharen and they traded their #1 prospect (dbarton) ... and mmulder (the savior ?) is coming off a disastrous 2nd half and a mysterious hip ailment...i think their roster has regressed the most since october
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Postby Registered_Guest » Sat Dec 25, 2004 4:28 pm

Going with LA.

Everyone stated how much money McCourt had in LA. He signed an aging Jeff Kent and gave the injury prone JD Drew the same money they wouldn't give Beltre.

I'd take Adrian Beltre alone over Kent AND Drew. When Beltre is hitting 30+ HR in Seattle next year, I think everyone will be asking themselves, what were the Dodgers thinking.

The Dodgers put what, 8+ years, in with Beltre.....then he FINALLY realizes his potential (which he was expected to do too much to quick anyhow)....and you let him go???
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Postby RynMan » Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:12 am

No question, Arizona. Too much money to give to those guys, especially from a team that is supposed to be in the red.

At first I freaked when I saw the A's trades and after sitting down and looking at them, I think Beane did very well out of them. Especially out of the Mulder trade. There are some very good articles on Baseball Prospectus' website about how this year's A's pitching staff have the potentil to be better than last year's, and the article brings up alot of good points with some good statistics to back it up. Im not gonna say they will be, but the articles make good cases.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:00 am

stevethumb wrote:as the question is stated, SO FAR, i think the cardinals are having a poor off season..they now have their backup catcher as a starter.. they have no 2nd baseman (HLuna ?)..deckstein instead of renteria..no skline no kcalero no wwilliams no dharen and they traded their #1 prospect (dbarton) ... and mmulder (the savior ?) is coming off a disastrous 2nd half and a mysterious hip ailment...i think their roster has regressed the most since october


nice post - thanks for bringing this to our attention. Is STL really losing that much already this offseason? Any STL fans want to defend your team?
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Postby reiser » Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:34 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:
stevethumb wrote:no skline no kcalero no wwilliams no dharen and they traded their #1 prospect (dbarton)


nice post - thanks for bringing this to our attention. Is STL really losing that much already this offseason? Any STL fans want to defend your team?


well, not a cards fan per se, but you wouldn't take Mulder over the above bag of career middle relievers and 4th starters? gimme a break.

also, I believe Yadier is supposed to be the best of the Molina's, which makes him far better than Matheny at 34.

"Gerald from St Louis, MO asks:
Do you see Yadier Molina replacing Mike Matheny next year as the Cards starting catcher? If so, what kind of numbers do you expect Molina to put up offensively? Also, Cardinal fans have been spoiled by Matheny's great defense the past couple of years, do expect Molina to play similar defense? Thanks
A: Jim Callis: The Cardinals system is thin right now, but Molina is going to be an upgrade on Matheny. He's a similar defensive standout with Gold Glove potential. Molina needs to get stronger and doesn't have much pop, but he has continually improved as a hitter and should offer significantly more offense than Matheny (yesterday's game notwithstanding). I haven't seen the Cardinals address their catching plans for next year, but Molina is ready for more playing time."
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Postby JDD » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:21 am

How can you NOT vote for LA, whose front office appears to be bound and determined to make the 2005 team worse than the 2004 squad....
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Postby stevethumb » Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:15 pm

nice rebuttal, reiser..molina-matheny interchangeable and $savings there too BUT no i would not want mmulder $6m over kcalero-dharen = $1m and the future of dbarton
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Re: Why isn't anyone talking about the Yankees?

Postby blankman » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:29 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Tavish wrote:
GreenMonsterGoon wrote:Now let me preface this with the fact that I am a staunch Yankee hater and I'm usually somewhat irrational. But,

Jarret Wright is awful. Now I understand he had a wonderful year under Leo's tutelage, but what is the track record of those who leave Leo. Not too good. And the Yanks gave him what, 7 mil?

Carl Pavano has a record of 57-56. One good year got him 40 mil. Isn't that a Rich Rhoden move if you've ever seen one.

And despite reshaping their pen, does anyone really believe the changes that were made are dramatic improvements? They're still counting on a bunch of guys who blew leads to the sox.

Meanwhile, Boston has signed the best SS in the NL, A huge big game pitcher in Wells, A deal of Miller (albeit a risk), but he's 55-37, not 57-56. And added Clement, re-upped V-tek, took a flier on a stud (when healthy) like Mantei, and added a reliable long reliever in John Halama.


I understand you are a big Red Sox fan, but I'm sure you can see the obvious problem with your analysis. When the Yankees take a chance on two healthy pitchers you say they are bad moves. When the Red Sox take a chance on 3 high risk pitchers its genious. Sure the Red Sox got cheaper buys on their players, but does the RSN really care that if they don't win the WS or even, god forbid, miss the playoffs that they found cheaper alternatives?

BTW the Red Sox didn't sign the best SS in the NL. They traded away the best SS in the NL last season. :-D


Touche. :-b

And why didn't I think about W-L records when determining how good a pitcher is?? ;-7

How can you diss Pavano and then mention Clement in a positive light?? :-?

I will say welcome to the Cafe, though. ;-D


A great point.

GMG, Since W-L is the determination of a good pitcher ;-7 , Clement and his 69-75 record must really, really suck.

And you do realize that Mantei has thrown 56 innings only ONCE in his entire 9 year career.
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Re: Why isn't anyone talking about the Yankees?

Postby Transmogrifier » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:19 pm

Tavish wrote:
GreenMonsterGoon wrote:Now let me preface this with the fact that I am a staunch Yankee hater and I'm usually somewhat irrational. But,

Jarret Wright is awful. Now I understand he had a wonderful year under Leo's tutelage, but what is the track record of those who leave Leo. Not too good. And the Yanks gave him what, 7 mil?

Carl Pavano has a record of 57-56. One good year got him 40 mil. Isn't that a Rich Rhoden move if you've ever seen one.

And despite reshaping their pen, does anyone really believe the changes that were made are dramatic improvements? They're still counting on a bunch of guys who blew leads to the sox.

Meanwhile, Boston has signed the best SS in the NL, A huge big game pitcher in Wells, A deal of Miller (albeit a risk), but he's 55-37, not 57-56. And added Clement, re-upped V-tek, took a flier on a stud (when healthy) like Mantei, and added a reliable long reliever in John Halama.


I understand you are a big Red Sox fan, but I'm sure you can see the obvious problem with your analysis. When the Yankees take a chance on two healthy pitchers you say they are bad moves. When the Red Sox take a chance on 3 high risk pitchers its genious. Sure the Red Sox got cheaper buys on their players, but does the RSN really care that if they don't win the WS or even, god forbid, miss the playoffs that they found cheaper alternatives?

BTW the Red Sox didn't sign the best SS in the NL. They traded away the best SS in the NL last season. :-D


For what it's worth, I agree with Tavish--that there are risks on both sides. But Nomar is not a better SS than Edgar anymore. Too much injury risk.
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