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player values

Postby phil » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:52 pm

I'm a first-time fantasy league player. I'm in an 8 team 5x5 roto mixed league. What is the general rule in trading position players for starters or relievers, or vice versa? Should it be based on how each player rates within their individual position category or is one inherently more valuable than than the other? Obviously, this question overlooks who might be hot...etc.
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Postby jdh » Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:28 pm

It all depends, the best thing to do is to post a suggested trade, and people will give their opinions on it. In general, don't really pay too much attention to the Yahoo ranking system, because it is questionable at times. Also, when considering the value of players, the number of comparable players at a given position does come into account. For example, a #10 ranked outfielder is much more valuable and put up much better numbers than a #10 ranked catcher. You basically have to look at the numbers that a player is expected to put up and compare those to his position average. For example, Garciaparra will likely go .320-30-120, which will put him in the top 3 shortstops, while the top 10-15 outfielders and top 10 first baseman could well put up similar numbers.

Post a suggested move and we can give more advice.
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Postby trippinonreality » Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:41 pm

Its all about position scarcity. The more rare a certain amount of production is at a position determines the value. If you strip away positions than someone like Tejeda is a late third rounder but because he plays at a scarce position he is a mid second rounder.

Determine what a group of players at a certain position will produce and rank them tier 1 and than your next group tier 2 and so on. Doing so will give you a basic understanding of the value of a certain player.

Before you make any trade post it in the forums to get feedback on whether you should make it or not. As for me I play fantasy sports with the same group of people every year, so I know their patterns. Knowing them allows me to get the best value because I know who they like and don't like and who they overvalue and undervalue. Inside knowledge like that could be the difference between first and second.
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Postby phil » Wed Apr 23, 2003 6:31 pm

Thanks for the replies. They are helpful and on line with what I had been assuming to be correct. However, I'm particularly interested in the relationship between position players and pitchers. The comparison seems somewhat like apples and oranges. Starting pitchers can help only once every five days, while closers may be significantly helpful in three categories. Evaluating their value against an everyday player seems awkward. Here are some trades I have offered:

W. Miller for E. Guardado - rejected
Sweeney/Santana for Garciaparra- rejected
R. Hernandez or Peavy for Foulke- no response
Sexson for Durham- no response

I was offered: Renteria for Abreu- I rejected the offer.

Any suggestions or advice? Thanks again.
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Postby Josh » Wed Apr 23, 2003 6:43 pm

Those trades you offered were quite fair, dont be discouraged by them. Many people do not want to trade, cause they are scared about getting screwed, so the only way they will trade is if they are screwing you. You were right to reject that trade, that was bogus. Like someone above mentioned, if you have any questions about trades, just post them on here and we can all help you. Trading is difficult with some though, so beware, a fair market is not always what you will get as you saw with the rentaria trade.
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Postby jdh » Wed Apr 23, 2003 6:47 pm

When it comes down to being between pitchers and batters and between starters and closers, it becomes much more difficult to analyze, and it depends on two things. One is the scoring system of the league, and how much weight is placed on pitching vs offense, and what categories are used. It also depends on what other teams have and need. For example, the Guardado for Miller trade seems fairly even, if the team with Guardado has other closers and need starting pitching, and the team with Miller needs closers but has enough starting pitching. The same thing goes with batters for pitchers; teams are more likely to accept pitcher for batter trades if they need one or the other to balance their team. You really have to scout out what an opposing team has as strenghts and weaknesses to pull off that kind of trade.

The Sweeney/Santana for Garciaparra trade is a bad one for the person getting Sweeney/Santana because Sweeney and Garciaparra should be very similar in overall average, homers and RBIs. However, Garciaparra has a huge edge due to the fact that he's only one of three or four players at his position that can accumulate comparable stats. The throw in of Santana adds little value in most leagues, since he is a middle reliever that won't get many wins or any saves, making him of limited usefulness.

The Hernandez or Peavy for Foulke trade would be terrible for the person giving up Foulke, because of his value as a top 5 closer on a solid competitive team. Hernandez and Peavy are unproven starters at best. Sexson for Durham might make sense, if the team getting Durham has an extra 1B and a weak 2B and the team getting Sexson has vice versa.
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Postby Arlo » Wed Apr 23, 2003 6:58 pm

You're right: it is like comparing apples and oranges. Sure, you can convert each player's production into dollar values (or points earned, or whatever), but if you only use those values to evaluate trades, you probably won't get very far.

Apples and oranges seems like the better analogy. You might not be able to directly compare them, but you usually know which one you'd rather have. When offering trades, it's all about looking for what the other team needs, and plugging a hole of your own in the process, and that's often easier to do when trading a bat for an arm than otherwise.
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Postby Guest » Wed Apr 23, 2003 7:47 pm

Thanks again to those who responded! My question is probably not particularly easy to address, but the answers are clear and useful. I really enjoy reading the posts and thinking about trade values. One final follow-up question: I'm currently tied for 5th in my 8 team league. My roster is as follows- any areas that jump out as weaknesses or strengths that have trade value?

C- Varitek
1b- Sweeney
2b- T. Walker
3b- Hinske
ss- Guzman
of- Abreu, Kearns, Encarnacion, C. Jones, Gonzalez, Damon
1b/3b- Sexson
2b/ss- Hairston,jr.
utility- Durazo
sp- Johnson, miller, wolf, washburn, benson, peavy, hernandez, armas,jr.
mr- santana
cl- gagne, julio
ir- jeter
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