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New Kevin Brown question...

Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:11 pm

My buddy and I were talking the other day about KB, and something came up that neither one of us could answer, so I turn to you guys.

First of all, let me say that I think KB is one of the better pitchers for fantasy purposes. I think the "injury prone" tag many have put on him is completely inaccurate. He had elbow problems, had the common surgery to fix it, he rehabed it the required amount of time (1.5yrs), and returned to have one of the most dominate seasons of his career in 2003. Last yr he had a fluke accident with his hand and some back spasms (quite common for Ps). He was arguably one of the best SPs on the Yankees, although many Yankee fans are inexplicably trying to run him out of town for a bag of peanuts. Nevertheless, I still believe he will have a solid yr and his value right now is quite low.

However - this is where our conversation came to a pause: the topic of steroids was brought up. Now, Im not up to speed on this topic other than its not unheard of for pitchers to use steroids as a way to recooperate faster (im not even sure of that). KB is a horse - and if you have ever seen his forearms you cant help but be amazed. Has anyone ever heard rumors of roids with KB? He seems like the perfect candidate to use them considering he was recooperating during their heyday (2001-2002). Is this completely unfounded reasoning and am I just being paranoid? If he was on them, and now had to stop due to increased scrutiny, how would he be affected by that?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. If, however you are commenting on how good he is or that he is actually injury prone, I really dont want to discuss that unless you come up with sound reasoning that multiple pages of discussion on here and volumes of arguments with friends have failed to convince me.
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Re: New Kevin Brown question...

Postby trevisc » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:15 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Last yr he had a fluke accident with his hand.


How do you call punching a wall a fluke?

anyway...

YES.. KB was on the roids in my opinion. His legs and arms both are huge. I also have a feeling that Prior was on them. Have you seem Prior's legs? They look like tree trunks from a mighty oak. i'm beginning to wonder about Schmidt too. I wonder if Bonds slipped him some of that mysterious cream at some point cuz he's grown in the last 2 years too.

I'm right there with you on the KB thought though...
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:21 pm

Assuming for a minute that these pitchers did use roids, what can we expect from them now that they are off from it? Decreased velocity? Greater chance of injury? More recooperation time?

Honestly, I dont know, thats why Im asking.
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Postby dannahann » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:24 pm

He's one on my short list that of suspected users, but when I've disscussed this with friends, most don't share my suspiscions. This isn't an indictment, just that he's changed noticably from when I watched him pitch in the early to mid 90's. Some of these changes. (facially his neck area etc...) are very similar to changes I saw in known users like Cammy. Does this mean he used for sure IMO...no just that I have suspiscions.
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Re: New Kevin Brown question...

Postby Madison » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:26 pm

trevisc wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Last yr he had a fluke accident with his hand.


How do you call punching a wall a fluke?


Haha.....Lol. :-b

Getting mad, punching the wall, and breaking your hand is no fluke. It's also not the only time he's done some crazy thing like that. He destroyed a toilet with a bat when he was with Texas and I'm sure there are tons of other things he's done due to his temper. :-b

As to the steroids, as with any player who has yet to admit it, I don't know.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:28 pm

All of the above. I am sort of the leader of the run Brown out of town camp, so take it for what it is worth.

Hitting a wall is no fluke.
Back spasms that make it dificult for him to walk let alone pitch are no fluke.
His velocity is down to the high 80's, low 90's.
He had intestinal parasites (also no fluke) just like Giambi (coincidence?...maybe but highly suspicious nonetheless). Sort of a strange illness for someone to come up with,, let alone two players.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:36 pm

ok - before this goes off in the wrong direction:

Lets forget about KB.

Say you suspect pitcher X of using steroids. Why would he - what do roids help him do? Do they increase pitcher X's velocity? Now, what would happen if pitcher X stopped taking them?
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Re: New Kevin Brown question...

Postby killiansjmd » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:37 pm

trevisc wrote:
Cornbread Maxwell wrote:Last yr he had a fluke accident with his hand.


How do you call punching a wall a fluke?

anyway...

YES.. KB was on the roids in my opinion. His legs and arms both are huge. I also have a feeling that Prior was on them. Have you seem Prior's legs? They look like tree trunks from a mighty oak. i'm beginning to wonder about Schmidt too. I wonder if Bonds slipped him some of that mysterious cream at some point cuz he's grown in the last 2 years too.

I'm right there with you on the KB thought though...



Just because somebody has big legs and arms doesn't mean they are on steroids. Every person is different and when you are training with weights different parts of the body grow faster than the others. Many pitchers prioritze there legs in their weightlifting programs as strong leg benefit pitchers more than big upper bodies.

Is KB using? Possibly but in know way can I say it's as obvious as others.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:40 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:All of the above. I am sort of the leader of the run Brown out of town camp, so take it for what it is worth.


Yanks04, you are the leader of the "what have you done for me lately crowd." Hey, if you were a Sox fan, you would have benched Bellhorn and perhaps Damon after the first three games of the ALCS. Why aren't you running Arod and Sheff out of town--they too blew the ALCS with horrible hitting the last four games. Or, the biggest choker of them all --Rivera. He had the ball at the end of the game, with the lead, on back to back nights and blew it.

Right? Run them all out! :-b

Seriously, though, KB is a very good pitcher. I would love to have him as my fourth or fifth best starter. You should want to keep him.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:42 pm

Cornbread Maxwell wrote:ok - before this goes off in the wrong direction:

Lets forget about KB.

Say you suspect pitcher X of using steroids. Why would he - what do roids help him do? Do they increase pitcher X's velocity? Now, what would happen if pitcher X stopped taking them?


If I remember correctly, from what I've heard, roids help pitchers recover quickly, and have the most impact for relievers. Gagne is the biggest alleged-using pitcher around.
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