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Options for Manny?

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Postby Pacman » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:10 pm

ajgnydc722 wrote:
Pacman wrote:
Tavish wrote:I agree Pacman, but you forgot to say Jeter sucks. :-t



Oops, my bad.


How about this:


Ed-gar's bett-err (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)... Ed-gar's bett-err (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap) ;-D


I think Tavish was being sarcastic. :-?




Doesn't matter one way or the other. I stand by what I said.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:49 pm

Pacman wrote:
Tavish wrote:I agree Pacman, but you forgot to say Jeter sucks. :-t



Oops, my bad.


How about this:


Ed-gar's bett-err (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)... Ed-gar's bett-err (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap) ;-D


Maybe so but your argument has no backing. Please explain to me how Edgar Renteria is better than Derek Jeter...

On a year to year basis, Jeter beats Renteria in the following categories:
Runs Scored
Hits
Homeruns
Average
On Base Percentage

and Jeter is just behind, if not equal to Renteria in steals most years.

Renteria plays better defense but Jeter has a proven track record in the playoffs, which Renteria does not. In 11 career postseason series, Renteria has a .247 BA, .330 OBP, 1 homerun and 17 RBI.

Renteria is a very good player, and he'll do great for the Red Sox, but he is not better than Jeter.
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Postby Tavish » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:52 pm

LOL. I guess my preemptive strike on the same boring Red Sox and Yankee debates was an enormous backfire. :-/
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:53 pm

Tavish wrote:LOL. I guess my preemptive strike on the same boring Red Sox and Yankee debates was an enormous backfire. :-/


Yeah...sorry Tav. ;-)
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Postby lesgrant » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:29 pm

Pacman wrote:
lesgrant wrote:
Amazinz wrote:According to Gammons on ESPN radio the BOS/NYM trade talks for Manny are still underway. The hold up is that Epstein wants to save money this year on the team and Omar wants the salaries to even out.


I am SHOCKED Epstein would be looking to move Manny after losing Pedro.

I can’t see the logic for clearing salary by dumping almost guaranteed stratospheric production from Manny so that you could pursue the likes of RJ or Beltran, when both are coveted by the Boss, who is coming off of a record box office season with money to burn.

I don’t see Steinbrenner losing out in either situation given that he’s positioned all of his heavy artillery to play for those two. Granted, RJ is a trade and not a FA signing like Beltran. But, Johnson is going to want big $ and a contract extension for bigger $. Are the Sox prepared to take that commitment on? They’ve talked a good game, but when it comes down to it, they don’t seem to be prepared to go all the way for marquis talent. A-Rod comes to mind.

Either way, giving up a sure thing to compete with the Yankees for other available big guns is VERY risky. It would be very possible that the Sox enter the season, as mentioned before, as a 85 mil team as opposed to a 120 mil team. Will RSN be happy about that downgrade? Ticket prices are the same, Yankees get better, and RS payroll goes down. Hmmm. I know I like that scenario, but my Sox buddies prob. wouldn't.





Anyone else notice that this post makes it sound like the Yankees do EVERYTHING right EVERY year, in terms of signing and trading for the right players, and the Red Sox are just hapless wannabes who can't make the moves necessary to ever get past the Mighty Yankees??? :-b

Last time I checked, pal, the Red Sox were World Champions and the Yankees were looking forward to the start of their fifth season since winning a World Series title.

Lesgrant, maybe you might want to worry more about how the Yankees have conducted their business so far this century, instead of lamenting the Red Sox missteps. See how that works out for ya. ;-D


Last time I checked you DID win the World Series, so you can drop your Red Sox inferiority/Napoleon complex. You no longer have to prove that you can win a World Series. So, relax the monkey’s off your back.

Yankee fans have to deal with every transaction raked over the coals by people on this board, including (and especially) Red Sox fans. It comes with the turf, so get used to it.

If you can drop your baggage, you will see that my point is simple – it’s a huge risk to clear away Manny’s salary for players being pursued by Steinbrenner who

1.has more financial resources than Theo at his disposal (am I wrong?)
2.has made RJ and Beltran his priority (am I wrong?)
3.has beaten the Sox out for almost any player he ever really wanted (am I wrong?)

And if my comments are rooted in some superiority complex, then explain why it would make sense to dump your WS MVP who has some of the most consistent power numbers in the game. What? Are you rebuilding? How do you feel about paying the same price to see less of a product on the field? Who would you re-allocate Manny’s salary to? What would be your chances without Manny? When do you think the Sox will spend the money they save from dumping Manny? On whom? But, if you want to waste your time flaming clichés, then go ahead.

BTW: I have lived in Boston, a stone’s throw from Fenway, and have more RSN friends than Sox fans on this board. I’ll speak my mind and concern myself with any issue here that I choose to, including and especially the Red Sox.
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Postby Pacman » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:46 pm

lesgrant wrote:
I have lived in Boston, a stone’s throw from Fenway, and have more RSN friends than Sox fans on this board




Is that a variation on "Some of my best FRIENDS are Red Sox fans."... ?


Anyways, just because it's been REPORTED that Boston has talked with teams about moving Manny, don't be so sure it's true. (The Cliff Floyd/Manny rumor was refuted by Theo who said the Mets made that proposal to the Sox, who rejected it, not vice verse, as was reported.)

This week has been pretty bad for news organization "breaking" MLB news... They've been wrong more than they've been right.

I say Theo would explore deals involving Manny that would make sense for the team.... by that I mean, before he MADE such a deal, he'd have a firm plan of what he would do with the money the team would no longer pay for Manny.

In other words, if he dealt Manny and the Red Sox payroll immediately dropped $20 million a year, I gurantee you that the $20 would be spent on improving the team. Not necessarilly on an RJ or a Beltran, but in ways that improve the Sox chances of repeating as World Champions. The moves Theo made at the trade deadline: deal Nomar, gain Cabrerra Minkey and Roberts, were certainly not as grandiose as signing the Unit, but they sure did improve the team's chances of winning the World Series.

Bottom line, I say Theo's smart.... smarter than Cashman. And he'll do what's right. He wouldn't just deal Manny and let the owners pocket the difference.



You make fine points, lesgrant, but I have PLENTY of faith in Boston's management team. Good for you for being as optimistic as you are about the Yankees.

Me, I like the Sox position just fine.



Peace, bro.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:53 pm

Pac...care to back up your "EDGAR IS BETTER" statement?
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Postby lesgrant » Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:10 am

Pacman wrote: Is that a variation on "Some of my best FRIENDS are Red Sox fans."... ?


It means that I have enough exposure to RSN, beyond the media, to raise valid questions and express a valid opinion on issues about your ballclub.

In response to those issues, raised by more people than just Yankee fans, you've essentially adopted a blind faith in Theo stance and then you turn around and taunt me for being optimistic.

What's with that? Sorry you think I'm being condescending by raising a valid question, for which you have no specific answer for other than 'Theo will work it out.'
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Postby Pacman » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:03 am

ajgnydc722 wrote:Pac...care to back up your "EDGAR IS BETTER" statement?


Nah, I was just piling on there. :*) Not sure if I've said it to you before, but as I've mentioned on this board previously, I acutally like Jeter a lot. I also like Posada, Bernie and Mariano, a.k.a. the four guys left from the late-90s dynasty team.

We used to say it often here back in those days: 'You WANT to hate the Yankees, but this is a tough team to hate'. In the last few years, however, as the rivalry and tempers escalated between the two clubs, it's gotten a lot easier.

I'm excited about Renteria, I look forward to what he'll bring, and as I said above, I belive the Sox are NOT EVEN CLOSE to being done assembling the 2005 squad.

I think we can all agree, it's gonna be a fun year in the A.L. East, yes? :-) I can't friggin WAIT for April!
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Postby Pacman » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:10 am

lesgrant wrote: Sorry you think I'm being condescending by raising a valid question, for which you have no specific answer for other than 'Theo will work it out.'



I DID say your points were valid... you ARE obviously very knowledgable about the Sox and Yanks and MLB in general. I stand by what said about how I read your analysis, however. Someone who's been in a cave the last 4 months might read your comments and think the Yanks were champs. That was my impression. I simply asked if anyone else felt that way.

And, yes, you can call it blind faith in Theo. I seriously trust that the guy will do what's right. And I won't apologize for that.


Now chillllllllllllllll :-°
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