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Pedro's value in fantasy go UP or DOWN??

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Postby DK » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:24 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
DK wrote:The flawed logic is loosely tied to post hoc ergo proctor hoc, which is basically "since A happened, B must have happened because of it."

Since (the Mets have made bad signings in the past), then (this one is bound to be a bad one as well).

That's the flaw. New GM, new regime, new pitcher, new year.


I understand that and I would try to be positive as well but you also can't ignore the past. They have had a long time of failed signings so it has been expected, much like Yankee fans expect them to get the big names. Call it being spoiled but I prefer to call it what Yankee fans are accustomed to. If you are used to the wife making lunch for you every day, you might be a little surprised the day that she doesn't. If Pedro succeeds, most of the past will be forgotten. :-)


I would debate this further but I'm way too tired for it.

Essentially- Past has nothing to do with now regarding different regimes. It matters with players, because players don't change like GM positions do.

I'm done for the night.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:28 pm

DK wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
DK wrote:The flawed logic is loosely tied to post hoc ergo proctor hoc, which is basically "since A happened, B must have happened because of it."

Since (the Mets have made bad signings in the past), then (this one is bound to be a bad one as well).

That's the flaw. New GM, new regime, new pitcher, new year.


I understand that and I would try to be positive as well but you also can't ignore the past. They have had a long time of failed signings so it has been expected, much like Yankee fans expect them to get the big names. Call it being spoiled but I prefer to call it what Yankee fans are accustomed to. If you are used to the wife making lunch for you every day, you might be a little surprised the day that she doesn't. If Pedro succeeds, most of the past will be forgotten. :-)


I would debate this further but I'm way too tired for it.

Essentially- Past has nothing to do with now regarding different regimes. It matters with players, because players don't change like GM positions do.

I'm done for the night.


Hopefully, this finds you in the morning. :-)

I understand that different regimes equal different results (maybe) but you need to remember that:

1. The past is what it is during quite a few different regimes.
2. A constant that has been there has been Wilpon, which is fine, and Baby WIlpon, which is not. They can say whatever they want but the truth of the matter is that Baby has no idea what he was doing yet he had his hands too much in the pot. Fred has denied this but it is fact. They claim that Omar has full autonomy but the proof is in the pudding. So far, so good but we shall see.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:32 pm

There is no flawed logic. The Mets made big splashes with Mo Vaughn, Tom Glavine, Roberto Alomar, Jeromy Burnitz, Hampton, Kaz Matsui, Mike Cameron, Cliff Floyd, amoung others.

Most, if not all, of them have either failed compeltely or done poorly during their tenure in NY. Alomar, Glavine, Floyd, Vaughn all looked like nice signings that would make the Mets contenders. Kinda like the Pedro signing looks. The Mets always go out and get a good player and everyone thinks they'll be decent, and that player usually winds up sucking. That's why I said beware.
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Postby Amazinz » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:09 pm

Yes it is flawed logic. A team's track record really has no bearing on this signing. None. It's like saying Pavano is doomed to bust solely because the Yankees have no clue what they're doing with their pitchers in recent years. If it's your opinion that this signing is doomed to be a bust, cool, I'll disagree but I can understand it. But to say it's doomed to be a bust because the Mets have made mistakes does nothing but support an argument based on faulty perception. The Mets have made a lot of good moves too but people tend to remember the bad or see the worst in everything.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:15 pm

Amazinz wrote:Yes it is flawed logic. A team's track record really has no bearing on this signing. None. It's like saying Pavano is doomed to bust solely because the Yankees have no clue what they're doing with their pitchers in recent years. If it's your opinion that this signing is doomed to be a bust, cool, I'll disagree but I can understand it. But to say it's doomed to be a bust because the Mets have made mistakes does nothing but support an argument based on faulty perception. The Mets have made a lot of good moves too but people tend to remember the bad or see the worst in everything.


I'm not saying Pedro or Pavano are doomed to be busts just because the teams have been shaky in the past. I will admit, though, that I'm very nervous about Pavano, as a Yank fan. I probably would be with Pedro as a Met fan, too. The teams have had little success bringing in the right people, so there's always that chance. And with the Mets, it's happened a few times now, so the feeling is there more than most teams.
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:27 am

Amazinz wrote:Yes it is flawed logic. A team's track record really has no bearing on this signing. None. It's like saying Pavano is doomed to bust solely because the Yankees have no clue what they're doing with their pitchers in recent years. If it's your opinion that this signing is doomed to be a bust, cool, I'll disagree but I can understand it. But to say it's doomed to be a bust because the Mets have made mistakes does nothing but support an argument based on faulty perception. The Mets have made a lot of good moves too but people tend to remember the bad or see the worst in everything.


I agree that it is hit or miss but you are what you are and for a long time, the Mets have missed the boat on their signings. Please tell me the good moves that they have made in the recent past. :-? I see very few in the past 15 or so years.
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Postby slomo007 » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:33 am

Looper is the recent one which comes to mind.
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:42 am

slomo007 wrote:Looper is the recent one which comes to mind.


If that is the only 1 in the last decade or so, I rest my case. :-°
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Postby Amazinz » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:41 am

I can name two more from last year alone, Hidalgo and Cameron. Cameron led the Mets in Win Shares and gets paid fair market value. Say what you want about Hidalgo but it was a great move at the time and definite improvement over what the Mets had been using.

Listen if you want to make outlandish statements like the Mets haven't made a good move in 15 years (of course Piazza, Leiter, Ventura, Olerud, Hampton, don't count right) there's little use arguing with you. You'll believe what you want to believe.
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Postby trevisc » Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:29 am

has it been 15 years?

wow! how time flies
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