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SO WHAT?

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Postby Rkiivs » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:40 pm

I'm not sure why anyone is concerned about Bonds' reputation when clearly he is not losing sleep over it. Has there every been a figure in a major sport who has accomplished so much and has failed to capture the imagination of the public? I think his failure to do so is his intent -- he's consistently shown disdain for what the dominant baseball culture thinks.
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Re: SO WHAT?

Postby raiders_umpire » Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:15 pm

eftda wrote:Lets just say that Bonds, Sheff and Giambi are found guilty.

Then what?

If we say that their records are tranished then every record is tarnsished since 1960 (The birth of the steriod). How do we know they didn't take them?

Do we ban them from baseball? I agree that cheaters do not belong in baseball (cough cough AROD) but how do we ban these three and not everyone else who may have taken steriods. Should we have trials for evey single player?

IMO, burning one of these three (or all three) will just create more problems. I know everyone of us can think of 7-50 other players who might have taken roids.





SO WHAT :-? :-? :-? i wonder if that is the exact same thing our grand parents said in the early 1900s during the black sox scandal....

banning them from baseball...i cant see that happening as MLB had no rule or tests lined up during the time these 3 said they used steroids.... and like u, i could probably sit down and write a list of at least 30 players that i think used some kind of steroid in the past 20 years..... i dont see any way selig can take bonds last 3 years off the record books....


but in the end i think the history of the game will take care of these 3 players along with any others that come out..... as it would not suprise me that bonds would not be mentioned as one of the 5 best players of all time due to the steroid situation....
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Postby Absolutely Adequate » Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:19 pm

Rkiivs wrote:I'm not sure why anyone is concerned about Bonds' reputation when clearly he is not losing sleep over it. Has there every been a figure in a major sport who has accomplished so much and has failed to capture the imagination of the public? I think his failure to do so is his intent -- he's consistently shown disdain for what the dominant baseball culture thinks.


I don't know if that's true, exactly. Remember that Bonds quote about wanting people to forget about Babe Ruth? The guy does care, I don't think there can be any question about it. And now, thanks to his off-the-field activities, very few will consider him even remotely in the same class as Ruth. And I think that will tear Bonds up, to be honest.
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Postby Secret Avatar » Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:47 pm

Unfortunately, I expect this feigned outrage and crocodile tears will all blow over and we'll see steroid freaks again in 5 years.

I say "feigned outrage" because it was obvious to anyone with half a brain that Bonds, Giambi & Co. were practically shooting up horse steriods in the on-deck circle. I mean, COME ON! Did anyone really believe these dudes packed on 50 pounds of muscle in a few years at age 30?! We the fans knew it was going on and just looked the other way. So did the other players, the owners, and MLB. Everyone was getting rich off selling the new "power game" as HRs shot up dramatically.

I expect this cycle will repeat itself. Fans have very short memories and seem only too eager to give their favorite players a pass on virtually anything -- from cocaine addiction, to brutality against fans, to rape and other violence, and god knows what else. Steroid use is nothing compared to what the fans have forgiven other sports stars. Giambi may be just more unlucky than most because he's coming off a terrible year. I suspect if he had just won the MVP, we wouldn't be hearing so many people calling for his head.

Where does it all lead? Who knows. Personally, I think all steroids and performance-enhancing drugs should be banned. Where do you draw the line? If we allow steroids today, do we allow bionic limbs tomorrow? What's stopping players from shooting up coke on first base to get a better jump to second? In order for sports to survive, there has to be a plausible argument that there are real live humans out there playing. If not, sports will not become much different than those robot jousts you see really late on TV.
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Postby Rkiivs » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:24 pm

Oh, I dunno. Probably more disappointment than outrage at the handlers of MLB as much as some of the foolish players.

I believe that baseball reflects life (and NOT 'baseball is life' whatever dumb movie that line came from). Fact is, huge sums of money corrupt almost any endeavor; been that way since its invention. Sports is just the trivial side of that corruption. Bonds hasn't ripped off the nat'l treasury or killed and maimed tens of thousands.

But you're right in one aspect: we have short memories and we'll get past it.

After all:
Black Sox scandal - we got past it
Pete Rose - we got past it
Disco Demolition Night - thankfully we got past this one!
1994 lockout, no WS - we got past it
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:27 pm

A-Rod a cheater? I'm not crazy about the guy but he's not a cheater, especially if your talking about the arm slap play. :-t
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Postby Rico The Retard » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:30 pm

Cheater cheater pumpkin eater
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Mark my words: Oliver Perez will be 2005 NL Cy Young Winner
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Postby pgbridge2000 » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:33 pm

I don't think so because, the Black Sox cheated, Pete Rose did something Immoral, and the WS1994 Lockout was annoying, but none of them were prepared to rewrite 80 years of history by smashing through records that were impossible to beat. Remember those other 3 scandals didn't involve cheating to help yourself play, Black Sox was about money, Pete Rose was about gambling, and the lockout was about union v. owners. None of them were about cheating in-game. What bonds (i label him especially because what he did was so rediculously impossible whereas Giambi though probably not as good would have still had a career comparable to his year on steroids) did was about cheating to win and to erase the most hallowed of baseball records (i.e. career and season hrs).
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Postby kimchi_chigae » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:44 pm

i also agree with AA on this one. take what's happening now and make the game better for the future. forget about erasing bonds' number, he cheated, but he didn't do anything illegal according to the mlb rules.
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Postby FatGuyWithAMullet » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:46 pm

kimchi_chigae wrote:i also agree with AA on this one. take what's happening now and make the game better for the future. forget about erasing bonds' number, he cheated, but he didn't do anything illegal according to the mlb rules.


If Bonds was using steroids then yes, he was breaking the rules established by Major League Baseball in 1990.
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