51 - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to St. Louis Cardinals

51

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

51

Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:41 pm

My brother wrote this but since the FBC is blocked by his work, I thought I would share. B-) :-D

I won't bother with sportswriters that actually vote for the HOF. Willie will not be a HOFer. He only had 1 MVP and 2 Batting Titles. 2000 Hits with little power will not get you in the Hall unless you can do backflips. The baseball HOF is more about numbers and accolades than being important to fans.

But StL owners should here this. Retire 51.

The man is a legend in these parts. He epitimizes everything that StL stands for. He shows up for work, gives 110%, and does it again tomorrow. He wears his heart on his sleeve. He doesn't cause problems when things don't go his way.

StL made a mistake in 1990. Felix Jose didn't pan out. Willie didn't help the A's. Willie should have been a lifetime Cardinal.

Willie was drafted by the Yankees. We gave them a shoddy bomb casing filled with used pinball machine parts for him. When he got a chance in 82, he only was one of the most important players in the last championship the Cards won. He is the ultimate underdog. I can see him swinging and missing at a 55 foot curve then hitting the next pitch into left field. I see him walking, his head bobbing around, and a pained look on his face. When I remember sitting in the right field bleachers during warmups. We didn't cheer just anybody. Only Willie. We would chant '1 more year' every year.

I don't know that Willie is a model citizen. But I never saw him go into the stands at Wrigley when he was hit with a beer. I never heard him complaining about having a family to feed. He hasn't advertised for a divorsc lawyer. He hasn't complained about players used roids. He just wanted to play baseball.

But if I had a vote for the Hall, Straw wouldn't be considered. He wasted more talent than Willie had. I would vote McGee.
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21623
(Past Year: 337)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:14 am

Gives 110%? arrgggghhh

Willie was ok but if you retire his number how do you not retire Coleman's, Tewksbery's and maybe even Zeile's.
Image
Mookie4ever
Head Moderator
Head Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterHockey ModBasketball ModFootball ModMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 19545
(Past Year: 277)
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Hakuna, Montana

Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:43 am

Maybe you have to have been the STL in the 80's to see Willie play. I'm not saying he should be in the HOF cause he shouldn't but to compare him to Zeile, Coleman and Tewkberry is ridiculous. None of those players played close to as many seasons with the Cardinals or won an MVP. McGee has as more All-star appearances than all 3 combined. He isn't a Hall of Famer but he means so much to the Cardinals and the city of St. Louis that they should retire his number.
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21623
(Past Year: 337)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Postby j_d_mcnugent » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:43 am

willie shouldnt be in the baseball hall of fame. that doesnt necessarily mean his number shouldnt be retired though. mvp, two batting titles (including highest single season batting average by a switch hitter), all-star appearances, three gold gloves, world series victory...thats a hell of a lot more than coleman, tewks and those guys did. there are other things besides stats that made willie what he was. he was a generous guy and had those cookies for charity and all that stuff. he did all sorts of stuff that really symbolizes what cardinal baseball is all about. as much as anybody he was cardinal baseball in the '80's. stan the man and bob gibson set a pretty high standard for getting a number retired so maybe willie wont have his number retired but its not laughable to say it should be considered.
back from the dead
j_d_mcnugent
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe Ranker
Posts: 3766
Joined: 1 May 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: bored at work

Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:45 pm

OK maybe not the other 2 but Coleman certainly compares favourably to McGee.

Coleman: 2 time All-Star, 1985 ROY, 6 time league SB leader (6 years in a row!), 6th most SB for a career and he got rolled up in a tarp!

What it comes down to is that you are limiting yourself when you retire a player's number. Everybody who comes along now with numbers comparable to McGee's is going to have a claim to have his number retired.

You only have 99 numbers to choose from and when you retire one you are saying: ok, we're not going to have another 76 players play for us that were as good as this guy. To have your number retired you should at least be a HOFer. The Yankees don't retire numbers of players who haven't made the HOF so why should the Cards? Are the Yankees that much better of an organization? No.

They could have something else like a level of fame at the park or some other way to commemorate him but don't retire the number.
Image
Mookie4ever
Head Moderator
Head Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterHockey ModBasketball ModFootball ModMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 19545
(Past Year: 277)
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Hakuna, Montana

Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:03 pm

ok I was fairly wrong on this one. Apparently the Yankees have gone number-retiring crazy. Here are the Yanks whose numbers have been decommissioned:

1 Billy Martin
3 Babe Ruth
4 Lou Gehrig
5 Joe Dimaggio
7 Micky Mantle
8 Yogi Berra
8 Bill Dickey
9 Roger Maris
10 Phil Rizzuto
15 Thurman Munson
16 Whitey Ford
23 Don Mattingly
32 Elston Howard
37 Casey Stengel
44 Reggie Jackson
49 Ron Guidry

42 Jackie Robinson*


Of those, Martin, Mattingly, Maris, Munson, Elston Howard and Ron Guidry have not been inducted into the HOF.

Mattingly may be comparable to McGee in terms of numbers and what they meant to a team (except that McGee's teams won).

I still don't like the idea though. I am much more in favour of honouring players in a specific part of the ballpark but not retiring their numbers until they are in the HOF.
Image
Mookie4ever
Head Moderator
Head Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterHockey ModBasketball ModFootball ModMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 19545
(Past Year: 277)
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Hakuna, Montana


Return to St. Louis Cardinals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Saturday, Oct. 25
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at San Francisco
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact