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Giants close to signing Benitez?

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Postby TownDrunk » Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:52 pm

LBJackal wrote:Hermanson might have been a closer in the minors.... my point is he isn't a MLB closer. There's a difference. He isn't reliable, and the only 2 games that mattered last year he blew big time. You can blame that on being overworked if you want, but he isn't a reliable MLB closer. Benitez would be a HUGE help to you guys. Hermy might be a decent setup man but relying on him for anything other than that will get you guys where you were last year. If that's what you want.... that's cool. But if I was a Giants fan I'd want a real closer and somebody to protect Barry instead of a washed up SS and a closer who has half a season of success followed up by implosion in October. But alas, I'm not a Giants fan. Thank God, the way they're handling the off-season :-°


He went 17 for 20, after making a switch in mid season and he isn’t reliable?

And yes, I can blame it on him being overworked if I want, because he was. Watch some Giants games if you want to start commenting on things like this.

And no, the Giants won’t end up where they were last season if Hermanson returned as closer. He’s the one who actually somewhat saved their season, as they would have fallen like a rock if Herges had remained closer. He came in, and solidified the spot by going 17 for 20.

I’d like a guy like Benitez, but not for $7 million a year. That money could be better spent elsewhere.

And thank god you aren’t a Giants fan. And since I am a Giants fan, I want some quality pen arms. The offense scored runs, and Hermanson was solid as closer. What they need is pen arms, that’s their achilles heel.

And they’re handling the offseason pretty well, I would say. Signed one of the top 4 SS available, who instantly boosts their defense up the middle, something that needed to be done. Oh wait, he’s only marginally better than Cruz, I forgot :-° They’re talking with Benitez’s agent. They’ve made an offer to Finley. They’ve made an offer to Hermanson. They’ve also talked to Dye’s agent, who is the same agent as Benitez’s. So yes, so far, they’re doing everything they can to bring in some quality players to fill holes.

And you say Hermanson imploded (which was due to being overworked), I seem to recall Benitez imploding several times. So that doesn’t really help your argument any, does it?
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Postby LBJackal » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:40 pm

Benitez is an actual closer with 8 years closing experience, and is one of the best closers of the past decade, of course he's had some bad games, everybody has..... Hermanson has half a season where yeah he was OK, but blew it when it counted, and you can make excuses for that, but doesn't change it though.

This is pointless though because you refuse to look at the truth which is Hermanson is not going to get you to the playoffs, and Vizquel is a washed up defender. And yes I watched lots of Giants games last year. Not that I think that matters, but you seem to think it does. Look what avoiding real closers did to them last year.... hmmm lets get rid of Worrell and Nathan, Nen is done, but we have Herges! He'll get it done for us. Nope... I guess this year's experiment is Hermanson. That should be interesting. Talk to me in June because there's going to be nothing proven until then.
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Postby TownDrunk » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:52 pm

Ah, I see. It’s okay for Benitez to implode in a big game, because he’s good. But it’s not okay for Hermanson to implode due to being overworked. Gotcha. Oh wait, I’m just making an excuse for him! Never mind the fact that he appeared in 5 straight games in one week. Never mind the fact that Alou had said that he was tired. It’s just an excuse.

I refuse to look at the truth? Man, I’m beginning to see where you got your “holier than thou” reputation from. The truth is Hermanson came in and solidified the closers spot by going 17 for 20. The truth is Hermanson got overworked at the end of the season. The truth is Vizquel improved the clubs’ defense up the middle. The truth is the Giants real weakness is not a bat behind Barry, or a better closer than Hermanson, it’s the whole pen itself. The truth is Hermanson can get the Giants to the playoffs, granted if they get some players who can get the ball to him.

And since when was Nathan a proven or reliable closer when they got rid of him?
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Postby LBJackal » Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:10 pm

TownDrunk wrote:Ah, I see. It’s okay for Benitez to implode in a big game, because he’s good. But it’s not okay for Hermanson to implode due to being overworked. Gotcha.

Now we're gettin somewhere.

Oh wait, I’m just making an excuse for him! Never mind the fact that he appeared in 5 straight games in one week. Never mind the fact that Alou had said that he was tired. It’s just an excuse.

Not so much an excuse, more of convincing yourself Hermanson can do the job because he was decent for a couple months.

I refuse to look at the truth? Man, I’m beginning to see where you got your “holier than thou” reputation from. The truth is Hermanson came in and solidified the closers spot by going 17 for 20. Yep, he went 17-20. That doesn't mean much IMO. The truth is Hermanson got overworked at the end of the season. The truth is Vizquel improved the clubs’ defense up the middle. Marginally, yeah he improved the defense. Definately not a $5M upgrade though, especially for a guy who, after a couple of seasons, will probably be one of the worst SS's in MLB The truth is the Giants real weakness is not a bat behind Barry, or a better closer than Hermanson, it’s the whole pen itself. No, that's not a truth. A bat behind Barry is a weakness. Not the onyl one, but it is one of them The truth is Hermanson can get the Giants to the playoffs, granted if they get some players who can get the ball to him. That's far from a truth...... he definately didn't get them there last year.

And since when was Nathan a proven or reliable closer when they got rid of him?

I didn't say he was a reliable closer when you traded him.... he wasn't a closer at all yet... he was a lot better than Hermanson, and so was Worrell. And so is Benitez. And so is every closer I can think of, except Chad Cordero, Miggy Batista, Affeldt, Koplove, and the Mariners and Rockies' closers. I have no reason to be biased against the Giants, but hermanson was good for 2 MONTHS! How can you bank on him for the whole season after 2 months?!!? He has no history of being a good closer, or even a good starter for that matter.

And I get the holier than thou stigma because I point out when I disagree with poeple..... if I agree I don't become a yes man. Is that the wrong thing to do? I dunno, but it's better than just going, "Yeah, that's a great idea". Maybe I should do taht mroe so poeple will like me :-? Nah.
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Postby TownDrunk » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:32 pm

Maybe you should learn to grasp the concept of sarcasm a little better.

Oh, so it’s not an excuse now? Are you flip flopping? So, which is it, LBJ? Am I making an excuse for the guy or aren’t I? And yes, Hermanson convinced me he can handle the job with the performance he gave. Not only that, but he has the mentality.

He converted 17 saves in 20 chances, in the middle of a playoff run, after their previous closer had failed, and after being moved into the role midseason while he was a SP, and it doesn’t mean much? Good grief.

Ah yes, the whole he’s “marginally better defensively than Cruz” argument. If you even watched as many Giants games as you claim you had, you’d know that Cruz is simply terrible defensively. But no, a guy who didn’t commit an error in his last 55 games is just a marginal improvement over Cruz. Whatever credibility you had with me before you made that statement last week was lost. Just a completely idiotic statement. And they’re paying Vizquel $2.5 million this year, which is a bargain. They don’t care about the future, they’re going for it now and Vizquel helps tremendously.

Yes, that is the truth. Perhaps you should lookup what the word “real” means. The Giants had one of the top offenses last season. They scored plenty of runs. It was the pen that blew games for them, because they had to throw the Wayne Franklin’s of the world out there. Again, you don’t have a clue about this.

Again, he didn’t get them there last year because he took over in midseason and the Giants had no quality arms in the pen. Why do you have a hard time understanding that?

“Look what avoiding real closers did to them last year.... hmmm lets get rid of Worrell and Nathan, Nen is done, but we have Herges!”

Maybe you should try wording sentences a little better next time. Looks like you implied that Nathan was a “real closer” at the time they traded him.

Did Gagne have a history of being a good closer when he got moved into the spot? Did Smoltz? And I’m not comparing Hermanson to those two, but their teams had them made the switch, and it worked out well for them. How could their teams bank on them for the entire season when they had no experience?

No, you get the “holier than thou” stigma because you’re an arrogant person who thinks he’s right about everything all the time.
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Postby LBJackal » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:44 pm

TownDrunk wrote:Maybe you should learn to grasp the concept of sarcasm a little better.

Oh, so it’s not an excuse now? Are you flip flopping? So, which is it, LBJ? Am I making an excuse for the guy or aren’t I? And yes, Hermanson convinced me he can handle the job with the performance he gave. Not only that, but he has the mentality.

He converted 17 saves in 20 chances, in the middle of a playoff run, after their previous closer had failed, and after being moved into the role midseason while he was a SP, and it doesn’t mean much? Good grief.

Ah yes, the whole he’s “marginally better defensively than Cruz” argument. If you even watched as many Giants games as you claim you had, you’d know that Cruz is simply terrible defensively. But no, a guy who didn’t commit an error in his last 55 games is just a marginal improvement over Cruz. Whatever credibility you had with me before you made that statement last week was lost. Just a completely idiotic statement. And they’re paying Vizquel $2.5 million this year, which is a bargain. They don’t care about the future, they’re going for it now and Vizquel helps tremendously.

Yes, that is the truth. Perhaps you should lookup what the word “real” means. The Giants had one of the top offenses last season. They scored plenty of runs. It was the pen that blew games for them, because they had to throw the Wayne Franklin’s of the world out there. Again, you don’t have a clue about this.

Again, he didn’t get them there last year because he took over in midseason and the Giants had no quality arms in the pen. Why do you have a hard time understanding that?

“Look what avoiding real closers did to them last year.... hmmm lets get rid of Worrell and Nathan, Nen is done, but we have Herges!”

Maybe you should try wording sentences a little better next time. Looks like you implied that Nathan was a “real closer” at the time they traded him.

Did Gagne have a history of being a good closer when he got moved into the spot? Did Smoltz? And I’m not comparing Hermanson to those two, but their teams had them made the switch, and it worked out well for them. How could their teams bank on them for the entire season when they had no experience?

No, you get the “holier than thou” stigma because you’re an arrogant person who thinks he’s right about everything all the time.


Not much worth responding to here... but have fun with Vizquel. Maybe he went 55 games without an error because he doesnt' get to nearly as many balls anymore... but taht doesn't matter as long as he catches the ones within 5 feet of him. Call it Derek Jeter syndrome I guess.

And he's signed for $12.25M over 3 years. If he's making $2.5M this year then you'll be giving a washed up 40 year old SS $10M in 2006 and 2007. Either way you look at it, it's not worth it. But whatever, you guys think it is.
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