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Kendall to Oakland

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Postby Bloody Nipples » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:01 am

Zito is God wrote:I am a big Kendall supporter. That biend said bieng an Oakland fan I do NOT want this deal done because of money purposes. Unless the Pirates pick up a ton of his salary. As far as I remmember Beane will be overpaying as it is and he needs that money for the big three. My guess is that (very very sadly) Zito is gone if he doesn't pick it up this season, but Hudson and Mulder both need to be resigned. For that to be done he needs to play cheap guys at the positions which he has been doing (excluding Chavez) for the most part, this is just throwing off the gameplan. :-t


Yeah, isnt the Moneyball philosophy to get cheap young guys with lost of upside? And isnt Kendall an expensive old guy who will only get worse with time? Seems like a bad move money-wise to me.
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Postby Bukoski77 » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:03 am

As an Oakland fan I really hope this one doesnt go through.

Too much money for him and very un Oakland like to begin with.

I rate our need for middle relief as just as serious as our clubs need for offense help as well.

I really look for Arthur Rhodes to much better as a lefty set up guy and a few other circumstances, like he did in previous years, before busting as a closer. We know what he will do at his worst and he is a player that could greatly help in middle relief, which we need.

Addressing one weakness bye makeing another weakness(RP) even weaker is not a good strategy. particularly with that huge contract possibly inhibiting finding other help.

Bad Trade for Oakland :-t . I hope it doesnt go through.
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Postby GSes » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:51 am

as long as pitt pays a portion of kendall's salary i like it, kendall is a top 7-10 all around catcher in baseball.

rhodes and redman need to go they are horrible.

LEHR???? no lehr is not going to be setting up, he is not going to do much in the major leagues imo. Billy hasnt even started this offseason yet, if he does trade durazo he is gonna need a bat to replace durazo........kendall can not match durazo run production. with the kendal deal i would project

1. Kotsay (CF)
2. Kendall (C)
3. Chavez (3B)
4. Durazo (DH)
5. Crosby (SS)
6. Hatteberg (1B)
7. Byrnes (LF)
8. Swisher (RF)
9. Ellis (2B)

1. Hudson
2. Mulder
3. Zito
4. Harden
5. Duscherer or Blanton

Closer: TBD
Setup: TBD
Middle: TBD
Middle: TBD
Middle: YBD
Long: Duscherer or Blanton
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Postby chinch sacs » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:13 am

GSes wrote:
1. Kotsay (CF)
2. Kendall (C)
3. Chavez (3B)
4. Durazo (DH)
5. Crosby (SS)
6. Hatteberg (1B)
7. Byrnes (LF)
8. Swisher (RF)
9. Ellis (2B)

1. Hudson
2. Mulder
3. Zito
4. Harden
5. Duscherer or Blanton <----- Duke did well as long man

Closer: TBD <------ come on, its going to be Dotel
Setup: TBD
Middle: TBD
Middle: TBD
Middle: YBD
Long: Duscherer or Blanton


You would rather have Swisher in the line-up over Johnson???

Bean knows Johnson is the better player, and Durazo is going to make a TON in arbitration, and I don't think Bean is going to pay big bucks for a DH, even if he worships the way Durazo plays. Ruby is turning 30 this year also, so I dont think Billy is going to try to sing him long term, I think he goes this offseason.

As for the Kendall money thing, this is what the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has to say:

Jason Kendall - C - PIT


The Pirates are expected to chip in about $5 million of the $20 million difference in salaries in order to get the Jason Kendall deal done.
It's believed that's all that's left are the physicals, and the trade sending Kendall to Oakland for Mark Redman and Arthur Rhodes will be announced on Friday or Monday. Nov. 25 - 3:14 am et
Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:32 am

Bloody Nipples wrote:Yeah, isnt the Moneyball philosophy to get cheap young guys with lost of upside? And isnt Kendall an expensive old guy who will only get worse with time? Seems like a bad move money-wise to me.


No, the Moneyball philosophy is to get guys with skills that are undervalued.

Kendall isn't that old (30) and he finished 13th in OBP of ALL players last year.

If they could get the Pirates to assume $10 million, it's likely to be a good deal.

It's an even better deal if they can figure out what the heck happened to his power. Thi sguy slugged 458 in his first 5 years and 377 in the last 4. Something's odd there.

Another possibility is you move him out of catcher. Look at somebody like BJ Surhoff. Other than a rookie season, he never slugged more than .400. In 1993 they move him out of catching and 7 of the next 8 seasons he slugs better than 440.
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Postby Bloody Nipples » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:55 pm

GotowarMissAgnes wrote:
Bloody Nipples wrote:Yeah, isnt the Moneyball philosophy to get cheap young guys with lost of upside? And isnt Kendall an expensive old guy who will only get worse with time? Seems like a bad move money-wise to me.


No, the Moneyball philosophy is to get guys with skills that are undervalued.

Kendall isn't that old (30) and he finished 13th in OBP of ALL players last year.

If they could get the Pirates to assume $10 million, it's likely to be a good deal.

It's an even better deal if they can figure out what the heck happened to his power. Thi sguy slugged 458 in his first 5 years and 377 in the last 4. Something's odd there.

Another possibility is you move him out of catcher. Look at somebody like BJ Surhoff. Other than a rookie season, he never slugged more than .400. In 1993 they move him out of catching and 7 of the next 8 seasons he slugs better than 440.


I pretty much meant that was the philosophy, but just couldnt find words (dumb, huh :-D ). He may have a good OBP, but with that large salaray I dont think he is undervalued. And I dont see the pirates taking any of his salary; they are strapped for cash, too.
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Postby ensanimal » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:59 pm

sounds like oak is giving pit money for the first 2 years... :-?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1931862


Associated Press
PITTSBURGH -- Jason Kendall has been one of baseball's steadiest offensive players since his rookie season in 1996, a player who rarely takes an at-bat or a day off. His uniform is always the dirtiest in the clubhouse after a game.


He also has been the Pirates' biggest expense for several seasons and that's why, even though he personifies the tough-guy, grind-'em-out image Pittsburgh sports fans love in their athletes, the Pirates have sought to trade him for several years.



Despite Kendall's six .300 or better seasons and .387 career on-base percentage, the Pirates could no longer justify a salary that hits $10 million -- a little less than one-third of their projected payroll of $35 million -- in 2005.



That's why the Pirates have nearly completed their long-standing goal of shedding Kendall's big contract -- $34 million over the next three seasons -- by working out a trade with Oakland for left-handers Mark Redman and Arthur Rhodes, according to a baseball official who spoke Wednesday on the condition of anonymity.



One sign the deal is all but done: The Pirates have removed Kendall's image from their Web page, though his biography remains.



Because of the Thanksgiving holiday, the deal isn't expected to be announced until Friday at the earliest. The Pirates require full medical reports and physicals on all acquired players, stepping up their scrutiny since the Red Sox attempted to deal them right-hander Brandon Lyon in the 2003 trade for reliever Scott Sauerbeck.



Post-trade tests by the Pirates revealed an elbow problem the Red Sox denied knowledge of, though they accepted Lyon back in a reworked trade. Lyon later wound up with Arizona but missed last season with the injury.



Kendall has had two major injuries, a severe ankle dislocation on July 4, 1999, and a 2001 thumb ligament injury that affected him at the plate for two seasons. But he rebounded from both injuries to hit .325 in 2003 and .319 in 2004.



Losing Kendall will leave a big hole atop the Pirates' batting order -- he had a .399 on-base average as a leadoff hitter last season -- and behind the plate. Last season, he broke the team record for games caught in a career, and his 1,409 career hits rank 16th in the history of a franchise that has long produced some of baseball's top hitters.



The Pirates have no catcher ready to take Kendall's place. Humberto Cota is considered a backup at best and one-time No. 1 prospect J.R. House may lack the catching skills necessary to play regularly.



The team spent about $2 million last summer signing first-round draft pick Neil Walker, a Pittsburgh-area high school catcher, but he most likely is years away.



The Pirates could flip Rhodes and the $6.2 million remaining on his contract to another team in a trade for a catcher, though manager Lloyd McClendon may lobby to keep Rhodes.



Despite Rhodes' poor 2004 season (3-3, 5.12 ERA, 46 hits allowed in 38 2/3 innings), he could team with left-handers Mike Gonzalez and John Grabow, right-hander Salomon Torres and closer Jose Mesa to give the Pirates an effective mix of late-inning pitching. Mesa and Torres recently signed new contracts.



The Pirates will keep Redman, who is due nearly $8 million over the next two seasons but will add a second left-hander to a rotation that was predominantly right-handed last season. Oliver Perez (12-10, 2.98 ERA) was the only left-hander to start more than six games.



The deal is expected to net the Pirates a savings of about $15 million, and more if they deal Rhodes. The Athletics are expected to give the Pirates a small amount of money over each of the next two seasons, with the Pirates making a 2007 payment to Oakland to help offset Kendall's $13 million salary that season.



Damian Miller, Oakland's catcher last season, was to have signed a three-year contract Wednesday with Milwaukee, but that deal was held up because of incomplete medical records.
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Postby GSes » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:54 pm

chinch sacs wrote:
GSes wrote:
1. Kotsay (CF)
2. Kendall (C)
3. Chavez (3B)
4. Durazo (DH)
5. Crosby (SS)
6. Hatteberg (1B)
7. Byrnes (LF)
8. Swisher (RF)
9. Ellis (2B)

1. Hudson
2. Mulder
3. Zito
4. Harden
5. Duscherer or Blanton <----- Duke did well as long man

Closer: TBD <------ come on, its going to be Dotel
Setup: TBD
Middle: TBD
Middle: TBD
Middle: YBD
Long: Duscherer or Blanton


You would rather have Swisher in the line-up over Johnson???

Bean knows Johnson is the better player, and Durazo is going to make a TON in arbitration, and I don't think Bean is going to pay big bucks for a DH, even if he worships the way Durazo plays. Ruby is turning 30 this year also, so I dont think Billy is going to try to sing him long term, I think he goes this offseason.

As for the Kendall money thing, this is what the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has to say:

Jason Kendall - C - PIT


The Pirates are expected to chip in about $5 million of the $20 million difference in salaries in order to get the Jason Kendall deal done.
It's believed that's all that's left are the physicals, and the trade sending Kendall to Oakland for Mark Redman and Arthur Rhodes will be announced on Friday or Monday. Nov. 25 - 3:14 am et
Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



Swisher looked good in his limites action in the bigs last year and showed promise. Dan Johnson is a bigger prospect I agree but come on you really Beanne is gonna trust both swisher and johnson into the starting lineup????? The A's offense would be pathetic without a durazo or someone prooven protecting chavez.

1. Kendall
2. Kotsay
3. Chavez
4. ??????? (durazo if not traded, if he is traded billy will need a replacement bat)
5. Crosby
6. Hatteberg
7. Byrnes
8. dan Johnson or nick swisher
9. Ellis
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Postby GotowarMissAgnes » Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:41 pm

ensanimal wrote:sounds like oak is giving pit money for the first 2 years... :-?


I heard Oakland gives a million in year one and two and Pittsburgh gives Oakland $7 million in year 3.

That makes the net cost for Oakland

$3.5 M in 2005
$4.4 M in 2006
$6 M in 2007

Not bad for a catcher guy who ranks somewhere between 1 and 5 in the most advanced offensive metrics.
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Postby chinch sacs » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:11 pm

GSes wrote:Swisher looked good in his limites action in the bigs last year and showed promise. Dan Johnson is a bigger prospect I agree but come on you really Beanne is gonna trust both swisher and johnson into the starting lineup????? The A's offense would be pathetic without a durazo or someone prooven protecting chavez.

1. Kendall
2. Kotsay
3. Chavez
4. ??????? (durazo if not traded, if he is traded billy will need a replacement bat)
5. Crosby
6. Hatteberg
7. Byrnes
8. dan Johnson or nick swisher
9. Ellis


You dont listen, I did not say put them BOTH in. If you read what I WROTE, I said they deal Durazo off for a bat for RF. Then move Hatteberg into a full time DH and have Johnson play 1st.
Last edited by chinch sacs on Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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