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Postby d18Mike » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:47 pm

I'm a Detroiter. And I must have listened to about 70% of the Tigers games on the radio last year -- I don't think there is a lot of love for Munson or Pena in the Tiger organization from the broadcast booth to the front office.

Pena showed short stretches of solid Major League mediocrity but even his fielding (he was a projected Gold Glover coming out of AAA) has been seriously disaapointing. There was some thought that under Pudge's tutelege that he'd approach his potential. He hasn't and he likely won't but he will probably be around next year.

Munson is a little different story. Trammell seems to have little patience for him at the plate or in the field. I'd be fairly surprised and seriously disappointed if he's a starter next year.

But the Tigers have surprised and disappointed me before!
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Postby LBJackal » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:01 pm

I guess it's kinda disheartening when Munson seems to be getting worse... i mean a .289 OBA? And his K's are increasing while his BB's decrease. That shouldn't happen with a first round pick in his 5th stint in the majors. At least with Pena, while he isn't hitting for a good average, he's getting on base (.338 OBA) and hitting the ball hard (.472 SLG). Once his BA goes up - if it goes up - he should be a decent MLB first baseman. Maybe not for fantasy though, unless your league counts OBA instead of BA.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:30 am

I actually like Pena as a deep sleeper this yr. On the other hand, I dont have fantasy plans for either Munson or Monroe - neither of them are good enough to be a fantasy option. As others have said, it appears Munson is almost done in Detroit - Im sure you fellas have heard Detroit is looking for a new 3B. Monroe, while getting hot for short stretches last yr is not going to start unless a spot opens by injury - not a chance he sits Higgy - it wont happen.
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Postby wkelly91 » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:13 am

I'm not sure why you would want Higginson over Monroe even with inconsistancy.

Player...AB..R..HR.RBI.AVE

TOTALS
Monroe 447 65 18 72 .293
Higgy...448 63 12 64 .246

2ND HALF
Monroe 196 37 15 48 .321
Higgy...193 23 7 27 .228

Higginson is 34 and Monroe is 27. Monroe tore it up over the last half of the season having twice the runs, homeruns, and rbi's of Higginson, not to mention the .321 to .228 Average 8-o

I don't understand the theory of playing overpaid mediocre players because they are overpaid? :-? If you play the lower paid player and get better results, more wins, then you put more customers in the seats and thus have more money to improve your team.

Big contract or not, start the player who produces :-[

As far as fantasy goes Monroe's numbers are clearly better with more upside at 27, than a fading 34 year old who hasn't had a decent year since 2000 :~(
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:57 am

I agree wkelly - by the stats, Monroe is much better. The problem is the contract and the intangibles that Higgy has. He is (or was) a clubhouse leader, and you cant really put a value on that. Also, you must consider his contract - even though they shouldnt as you noted. Personally, Ive viewed Higginson as an albatross around the neck of the Tigers salary issues and I would like to see a good replacement for him - anyone want an overpaid below average outfielder?
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Postby looptid » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:01 pm

"Clubhouse Leader." Argh! That was the big rallying cry from those who did not want to see the Twins move Mientkiewicz (can still spell that from memory). Why have someone that actually preforms on the field? Much better to have someone that other players like. Like a first baseman with a career .404 slugging percentage who was hitting .246/.340/.363 when he was traded and then hit worse for his new team.

Winning = Chemistry, Chemistry = Winning ...?
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Postby ntrdame316 » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:19 pm

I honestly believe the only reason Higgy will start this year is because hes best friends with Kirk Gibson, how the hell esle can anyone explain him starting over Monroe or even Thames? Granted, he does have one of the best arms in baseball, but that can only take you so far. As far as being a clubhouse leader, he can still be a leader in a platoon.
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Postby LBJackal » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:38 pm

Higgy is as good as, if not better than Monroe and Thames, he's proven unlike those 2, and he's being paid a hell of a lot more than those 2 as well. Lots of reasons to start Higginson. Also, you have to consider that an unproportionately large amount of Thames' AB's came against lefties. His stats will drop when he faces righties like most starters have to. This is the argument I used against Ensberg after 2003 and that worked out pretty well. As for Monroe - if he learns some discipline he could be a very good hitter. Will they start him over Higginson? I doubt it. They're about equal in talent right now, IMO, and Higgy is getting $12M next year and they aren't going to have him on the bench. Either he'll start for them all year, he'll be injured, or they'll trade him. In order to trade him they'll probably have to keep him in the starting lineup or nobody will want him.
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Postby Cornbread Maxwell » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:52 pm

This should really be an interesting offseason for the Tigers. If they sign another CF, then all bets are off, but if they dont, Im really looking forward to see what Nook Logan can do if he gets solid playing time. I mean, cmon, how can you not root for a guy named Nook?

As for Monroe, Im not sure how much pt he will get - obviously a lot depends on offseason moves and injuries, and its only December. I do know this - the window is closing on him to establish himself in Detroit. Craig will be 28 next season, and Detroit has some solid OFers coming through in the next couple years.
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Postby wkelly91 » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:23 pm

LBJackal wrote:Higgy is as good as, if not better than Monroe and Thames, he's proven unlike those 2, and he's being paid a hell of a lot more than those 2 as well. Lots of reasons to start Higginson.



Higgy 3 YR AVE. 485 65 128 14 62 60 13 0.2639 0.3453 0.4124

I'd say Higgy is proven bad :-[

Those numbers suck :-P

I would try any of those youngsters over him.
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