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Who is the most OVERRATED player in baseball?

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Postby ajgnydc722 » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:05 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:AJ, I don't think I bash Jeter. I think I support my opinions with solid analysis. (Although I still can't figure out why he took several steps, then dove into the seats in Yankee Stadium instead of simply stopping.)


Are you serious? I can agree that alot of people do overrate Jeter, but I find this statement to be ridiculous. He was running at full speed, had his eyes straight up trying to find the ball, and the foul area is miniscule down the left field line. It is humanly impossible to stop before you get to the wall if you are going at the speed he was. And if you DO stop, your legs are going to hit the wall and you're going to flip over head-first, a very dangerous maneouver.
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Postby irishdude103 » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:06 pm

i would have to go with Jeff Kent
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Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:05 pm

ajgnydc722 wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:AJ, I don't think I bash Jeter. I think I support my opinions with solid analysis. (Although I still can't figure out why he took several steps, then dove into the seats in Yankee Stadium instead of simply stopping.)


Are you serious? I can agree that alot of people do overrate Jeter, but I find this statement to be ridiculous. He was running at full speed, had his eyes straight up trying to find the ball, and the foul area is miniscule down the left field line. It is humanly impossible to stop before you get to the wall if you are going at the speed he was. And if you DO stop, your legs are going to hit the wall and you're going to flip over head-first, a very dangerous maneouver.


You should watch the tape again. Seriously, he had time to stop. And Pokey made a better play earlier in the game but didn't choose to dive into the stands. I think he was showboating.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:25 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:
ajgnydc722 wrote:
Transmogrifier wrote:AJ, I don't think I bash Jeter. I think I support my opinions with solid analysis. (Although I still can't figure out why he took several steps, then dove into the seats in Yankee Stadium instead of simply stopping.)


Are you serious? I can agree that alot of people do overrate Jeter, but I find this statement to be ridiculous. He was running at full speed, had his eyes straight up trying to find the ball, and the foul area is miniscule down the left field line. It is humanly impossible to stop before you get to the wall if you are going at the speed he was. And if you DO stop, your legs are going to hit the wall and you're going to flip over head-first, a very dangerous maneouver.


You should watch the tape again. Seriously, he had time to stop. And Pokey made a better play earlier in the game but didn't choose to dive into the stands. I think he was showboating.


He might have been showboating but it is not up to us to determine that. He made a great play on the ball and anyone that has made a similar play knows that when you are following the ball, you aren't paying much attention to the wall/stands. Outfielders are trained to look out for the wall. Infielders are not, especially middle IF.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:43 pm

Lo, I'm not saying he didn't make a good catch. It's that he gets so much credit for what he did AFTER the catch that pisses me off. Oh, he's such a warrior, yadda yadda. Like I said, Pokey made a better catch, and stopped.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:54 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:Lo, I'm not saying he didn't make a good catch. It's that he gets so much credit for what he did AFTER the catch that pisses me off. Oh, he's such a warrior, yadda yadda. Like I said, Pokey made a better catch, and stopped.


I understand. I actually feel like I am 1 of the few objective Yankee/Jeter fans. Let me explain. On this fantasy baseball site, he gets ridiculed non-stop about how overrated he is that people tend to actually undervalue him here. I will admit that he is overrated in some facets of the game but he gets criticized so much that people here act like he's bad and nitpick everything. His biggest downfall has been his defense, which he improved on this season. Let's see where that goes. In every other aspect of the game, he is above average. Warrior?? Maybe too much and maybe not but he is the heart and soul of that team. Yankee fans know it and other fans just see an overpaid player on a team that they hate. I laugh when people don't put him in the top 5 in their fantasy SS lists.

As for the catch, I repeat that it was a great play but whether he could have stopped or not is not for me to say. As for Pokey's play, I must say that I don't remember that play but it would be easier to stop when making a play like that which doesn't require you to catch the ball backhanded and across your body.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:15 am

I agree that he's in the top five of SS, by the way. And I think he's overrated in baseball in general. You know the clutch stats, for example. And I admit I'm biased; when McCarver said it the playoffs--and I quote--"Jeter has calm eyes," it drives me nuts. It's that drivel that I can't stand. It's nonstop.

Anyway, I think he's a very good player, with great baseball sense, like the "play" at home.

(On another note, while his defense did improve, I think his zone rating was help with Arod having great range at third.)
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Postby Amazinz » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:24 am

With all other things being equal, greater range by a 3B would decrease his RF not increase it. His ZR is up as well this year.
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Postby HOOTIE » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:41 am

This has bounced around from real to fantasy.

IRL, Jeter gets my vote. This isn't a slam NYY fans. He's a top player headed for the HOF. But because he plays in NY, and he's been in the postseason every year since 96 on, he's overrated. How many times do you hear, Mr. November? Mr. Clutch? If he wasn't drafted by NY, he would get the same recognition as Tejada (not alot).

LBJ would like to hear your irl picks via PM.

A note on Beltran. Kauffman (KC), gave him huge splits average wise. Power was same, but was Nomar like on home BA. Going on memory, but it was a 50-60 split, about 260 on road.

Too bad CS aren't counted more. After all, they are a OUT. A 20/20 (sb/cs) guy has much more value then a 60/40 guy.

Bonds was mentioned as most overrated? :-t He's probably the most underrated guy by 95% of fans. Most have no idea how great he is. He could play LF in a recliner, and still be bb best player.
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Postby Transmogrifier » Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:40 am

Amazinz wrote:With all other things being equal, greater range by a 3B would decrease his RF not increase it. His ZR is up as well this year.


I believe I meant ZR. Or maybe I'm really confused. :-[ :-b
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