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Who is the most OVERRATED player in baseball?

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Postby Tavish » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:48 pm

Is David Wells better than Ryan, too??


On Wells' best day? Yes. On most other days, no.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:53 pm

Tavish wrote:
Is David Wells better than Ryan, too??


On Wells' best day? Yes. On most other days, no.


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Postby Transmogrifier » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:54 pm

AJ, I don't think I bash Jeter. I think I support my opinions with solid analysis. (Although I still can't figure out why he took several steps, then dove into the seats in Yankee Stadium instead of simply stopping.)

Anyway, I didn't know that this was "who is the most overrated player in baseball amongst those that visit the cafe." Overall, I think he's the most overrated.
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Postby LCBOY » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
LCBOY wrote:
The Jury wrote:
San D wrote:I have always hated Russ Ortiz. He walks as many as he K's. It looks like he lost a bit off his fastball, and now his crappy BB/K totals are killing him.

Austin Kearns is definitely overrated for now. He had that one good half a season and hasn't done anything since. He's young and could still fulfill though.

Torii Hunter is similar to Andruw Jones in that he plays a great CF, but the bat has been strangely slow to take the next step.


RUSS ORTIZ!!

I can't STAND that guy! He is, in my opinion, THEEE MOST overrated fantasy pitcher of the modern era! :-P


That title belongs to Nolan Ryan. If by modern you mean current players Russ is up there.


In some regards, I agree but I will disagree overall because of 1 simple fact. On his best day, he was the most dominant pitcher ever.


On his best day, the most dominant ever? That's a pretty strong statement. How would one determine such a thing? I think Pedro in his prime season was pretty dominant. So were along list of HoF pitchers. Ryan is a HoFer because he was the most extreme power pitcher in history. He did things that no one had ever done before and are not likely to be again. But I do not consider him part of the inner circle of HoF pitchers. He's not in the same class as Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn, Roger Clemens or Greg Maddux. Ryan was a contemporary of Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton and Jim Palmer. I would rank Ryan behind those guys because there's more to pitching that Ks and no-hitters. Even when Ryan was winning 20 games AND striking out 383 hitters he still didn't win the Cy Young award. That says a lot. The obsessive hero worship at the end of his career was pathetic and embarrassing. Of course that wasn't Ryan's fault, though.
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:22 pm

LC and tavish.......Maybe you're misunderstanding me and maybe not but what I am trying to say is that at his most dominant, he was the best ever, IMHO. I will take 7 no-hitters and 12 1-hitters over someone who had 1 perfect game. There are so many variables that go into it. I am not saying that Ryan is even close to being the best pitcher ever. What I am saying is that on his best day, he was the most dominant pitcher ever.
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Postby GameOn » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:37 pm

I think the most Overrated player in baseball has to be Kris Benson. Here is a guy who has NEVER done ANYTHING at all. He has a career ERA of 4.278, he has neverwon more than 12 games ina season (and he just did that this year, prior he had only had two seasons of 10+ wins), he is not a K pitcher, and on and on. Yet every year people talk about him and hope for him to break through because he was a number one pick, but he doesn't do jack. And then he receives a 3 year deal worth 22.5 million....WHY?!!!!
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Postby TheYanks04 » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:40 pm

GameOn wrote:I think the most Overrated player in baseball has to be Kris Benson. Here is a guy who has NEVER done ANYTHING at all. He has a career ERA of 4.278, he has neverwon more than 12 games ina season (and he just did that this year, prior he had only had two seasons of 10+ wins), he is not a K pitcher, and on and on. Yet every year people talk about him and hope for him to break through because he was a number one pick, but he doesn't do jack. And then he receives a 3 year deal worth 22.5 million....WHY?!!!!


Yap. Lot of guyslike that. Beltre before this year (buyer beware)...Milton (has always stunk)...etc.
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Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:42 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:
GameOn wrote:I think the most Overrated player in baseball has to be Kris Benson. Here is a guy who has NEVER done ANYTHING at all. He has a career ERA of 4.278, he has neverwon more than 12 games ina season (and he just did that this year, prior he had only had two seasons of 10+ wins), he is not a K pitcher, and on and on. Yet every year people talk about him and hope for him to break through because he was a number one pick, but he doesn't do jack. And then he receives a 3 year deal worth 22.5 million....WHY?!!!!


Yap. Lot of guyslike that. Beltre before this year (buyer beware)...Milton (has always stunk)...etc.
Add Darren Dreifort to that list.
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Postby Tavish » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:43 pm

Lofunzo wrote:LC and tavish.......Maybe you're misunderstanding me and maybe not but what I am trying to say is that at his most dominant, he was the best ever, IMHO. I will take 7 no-hitters and 12 1-hitters over someone who had 1 perfect game. There are so many variables that go into it. I am not saying that Ryan is even close to being the best pitcher ever. What I am saying is that on his best day, he was the most dominant pitcher ever.


I won't speak for LC, but I think I'm on the same line as you are Lofunzo (just on opposite sides). The reason I would consider Ryan as a great pitcher is because of his longevity. There are not many pitchers who are above average for 20+ seasons, the only players who I would even consider near Ryan's class in that regard would be Warren Spahn and Phil Neikro and neither of them had quite the same overall longevity as Ryan.

But on a pitcher's best day I would put every pitcher with a perfect game above Ryan on his best day. Sure there are tons of variables that go into a perfect game, but in the end it is as good of a sign of dominance on that particular day that you will find. I guess I would give Ryan the edge over a perfect game if he threw a no-hitter, struck out 20+, and walked one in a single game (or even better beaned one). But when you face 27 batters and none of them can reach base against you that is pretty dominant no matter how they are putout.

Maybe I'm just too protective of the significance of a perfect game. In the long run it really doesn't mean much, but on that one particular day it means quite a lot.
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Postby DK » Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:08 pm

Transmogrifier wrote:AJ, I don't think I bash Jeter. I think I support my opinions with solid analysis. (Although I still can't figure out why he took several steps, then dove into the seats in Yankee Stadium instead of simply stopping.)

Anyway, I didn't know that this was "who is the most overrated player in baseball amongst those that visit the cafe." Overall, I think he's the most overrated.


I'm with you here, Trans. On the overrated point and the diving point. (Although I think I knew why he dived.)
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