San D wrote:Sheets would tie with Santana for my number one if someone started a fantasy league that didn't count wins.
So? Almost all do. That is like saying Ichiro Suzuki would be the number one player if you did not count HRs and RBIs. Fact is that as long as Sheets is with the Brewers he will be lucky to get to 14 Ws and that is just not going to put him in the same class as the others being talked about. Everything has to break his way for Sheets to get lucky enough to get enough Ws to be considered in Fantasy's elite class.
I agree that Ws are a product of luck to an extent, but they are also a product of design. You get the Ws with contenders. You do not with bottom dwellers except in rare cases.
Almost all do? Almost all pitchers have numbers like 260+ K's? Almost all pitchers have ERAs under 3.00? Almost all pitchers have WHIPs under 1.00? Uh, hello?
Sure Sheets will probably not get as many wins as Santana. But does that mean he should be dropped to "Good Fantasy Pitcher" status? I
don't think so. Wins disregarded, there were only two pitchers better than Sheets last year, and those were RJ and Santana, and by a hair at that.
Your Ichiro analogy doesn't hold up. Home runs are at least partially dependent on player skill. Wins are also somewhat dependent upon player skill, but there are also other factors involved, such as the team's offense and bullpen. You can't say Sheets isn't one of the best pitchers in the majors just because he only had twelve wins and a losing record. You could
say Ichiro isn't one of the best hitters because of his lack of power. With homeruns, it's not a relay race; you either put it over the fence or you don't. With wins, you have to rely on your team scoring enough runs for you to leave with the lead, and most of the time you have to count on the bullpen to not surrender that lead. If, for Ichiro's home runs to count, the next hitter had to hit a home run, then I would say your analogy is correct, but that isn't how it's done.
If I had a choice between Mark Buehrle and Ben Sheets, well, that would be the easiest decision I would ever make, despite the fact that Buehrle had more wins and will have a better offense behind him, because Sheets' other numbers are so good. The only time I think wins are useful when comparing pitchers is when you have a pitcher that can produce numbers close to Sheets' and has more potential for wins (e.g. Schmidt). Most pitchers have numbers that are dwarfed by Sheets', even if he only has twelve wins. I mean, Pavano had good numbers last year. How many would take him over Sheets, even though Sheets had six less wins and was "only" 0.30 better in ERA?