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Postby TownDrunk » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:50 pm

And I'm not sure why you think SBC will hurt his offensive numbers. The park kills power hitters, but Vizquel never had much power. If anything, it's wide open spaces benefits him.
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Postby TownDrunk » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:52 pm

And I agree with you about the farm. But it's always been Sabeans MO to draft pitchers and use them in trades.

I suspect that after Bonds is gone, you'll see a greater ephasis put on the farm.
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Postby wrveres » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:19 pm

I agree with Town Drunk on the signing .... ;-D ;-D

another note ...

this should also be a boost in value to Jerome Williams, a true groundball pitcher.
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Postby LCBOY » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:22 pm

TownDrunk wrote:I never said they are one. But Vizquel helps that cause, and if you can’t see that, well I don’t know what to say. Their defense is terrible up the middle, and they just added one of the top defensive SS in baseball.

Finley also helps the Giants. They’re a better team with those two on board.

You need to be realistic. The Giants aren’t going to budge from their $80 million cap figure. They aren’t going to after the marquee free agents. Finley and Vizquez aren’t marquee guys, but they help the club tremendously.


I agree both those guys make the Giants slighty better but not championship caliber. I know the Giants won't go after big time FAs but if they have any player development the Giants wouldn't need to rely on old FAs. If we just had one or two Hank Blalocks or Mark Teixeira's the Giants would be far better off. }:-)
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Postby LCBOY » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:23 pm

If Finley can come close to what he did last year then the Giants offense will be markedly better...
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Postby giants8307 » Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:12 am

wrveres wrote:
giants8307 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Rotoworld also says that the Indians get a 1st round pick from SF. Had it been a 2 year, 8 million deal with no draft pick....I would love the deal. But a 3 year, 12 million deal with a draft pick is IMO a pretty poor deal the more I think about it.


I just heard about the draft pick. This is the second year in a row this has happened, and it's starting to annoy me. Sabean just seems to hate young players and loves the veterans. He must realize that our #1 prospect, matt cain, was a first rounder, right?


just so you guys know ..

the reason Sabaen gives up that first pick, by signing somebody before the deadline, is so he does not have to pay first round pick "Cash" to prospects that rarely pan out. He is simply passing that responsiblity on to another team, which is smart, sort of ..

1st round picks cost alot of money and rarely pan out.


I know why he does it, i just don't agree with it. Beane doesn't have any money, either, but uses first-rounded on players that wouldn't have been drafted that high. Thus, he signs them for less. I dunno why he wouldn't do that. I mean, if he had signed vizquel later in the year, he wouldn't have forfeited the pick, right?
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Postby wrveres » Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:34 am

giants8307 wrote:
wrveres wrote:
giants8307 wrote:
slomo007 wrote:Rotoworld also says that the Indians get a 1st round pick from SF. Had it been a 2 year, 8 million deal with no draft pick....I would love the deal. But a 3 year, 12 million deal with a draft pick is IMO a pretty poor deal the more I think about it.


I just heard about the draft pick. This is the second year in a row this has happened, and it's starting to annoy me. Sabean just seems to hate young players and loves the veterans. He must realize that our #1 prospect, matt cain, was a first rounder, right?


just so you guys know ..

the reason Sabaen gives up that first pick, by signing somebody before the deadline, is so he does not have to pay first round pick "Cash" to prospects that rarely pan out. He is simply passing that responsiblity on to another team, which is smart, sort of ..

1st round picks cost alot of money and rarely pan out.


I know why he does it, i just don't agree with it. Beane doesn't have any money, either, but uses first-rounded on players that wouldn't have been drafted that high. Thus, he signs them for less. I dunno why he wouldn't do that. I mean, if he had signed vizquel later in the year, he wouldn't have forfeited the pick, right?


correct ...
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:04 am

Just saw this thread... wow, seems pretty bad at first glance. They have a mediocre SS (definately not the Omar of the mid-90's when he was actually an above average SS) whose going to be 40 when thsi deal expires. Sure he can get on base... but they don't need a top of the order hitter. They have Durham and Snow, who are very good there as it is. What they need is protection for Bonds and a closer. This deal likely means they won't be signing a closer which is a HUGE mistake. They're trusting Hermanson again? Didn't they watch him break down over the past couple weeks of the season? If they had a real closer they probably would have made the playoffs. A real closer like Nathan or Worrell...

Can't believe people like this deal. Benitez should have been a higher priority than Vizquel, a much higher priority... experience is nice, but it helps if you're not a late-30's player with deteriorating defense and no power whatsoever. If they wanted experience and leadership they shoulda brought Orosco out of retirement. :-P
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Postby TownDrunk » Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:27 am

1. They got an above average, defensive shortstop. Something that they needed.

2. No one can protect Bonds. Given their budget, they wouldn’t have gone out and signed a big bat anyways. Finley will most likely be brought in.

3. Hermanson “broke down” because he was overworked. He should be decent again. What they need to address is the set up and middle relief roles, that’s where they’re the weakest.

4. Benitez is still somewhat a head case; he had no pressure down in Florida. Hermanson should be adequate provided they upgrade the rest of the pen.

Vizquel improves the team defensively up the middle, just what they needed. I’ve already explained the contract and refuted numerous other claims. This was a good signing and I can’t believe people think other wise.

At least wrevres gets it ;-)
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:51 am

He's OK defensively, but not that good (13th of 22 in ZR... not as good as a lot of people think). He's not good enough for $12M when he's gonna be 40 in a couple years :-o He's only gonna get worse with the glove, and probably finish out his contract as one of the worst defensive SS's in MLB. So I wouldn't call this much of a defensive upgrade. And saying nobody can protect Bonds is silly. There are lots of FA's out there who are capable of protecting Bonds better than he was last year. And maybe Benitez is a headcase... but he's an awesome closer, while Hermanson is unproven and SF fans should know very well what it's like to go a season without a real closer. There are many better ways to spend $12.5M.
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