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Cashman...First it was Neagle...then Weaver...then Vaz

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Postby Erboes » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:27 pm

I believe you guys are being a bit too tough on Milton. He was coming off a shoulder injury and it took him a while to start throwing right. He always gives you good win and K totals and a very good WHIP. His ERA is perplexing, though. Not very often will you get a good WHIP, bad ERA like Milton has had through most of his career. One of these seasons he will correct that, and in anticipation of that I will keep on drafting the guy. Even without it, he is a serviceable pitcher.
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Postby WharfRat » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:28 pm

blankman wrote:
WharfRat wrote:Bring back Gene Michael, says I. He stood up to Steinbrenner. Cashman and his crew has become Steinbrenner's little monkey boys, I'm convinced. Instead of making smart baseball decisions, they just do what'll make Stein happy.


Think about it. The man has his career and his family to think of; he knows that if he says the wrong thing, he's fired. It would be no different with anyone else. The problem is not Cashman, its George.


a) The Yankees built a dynasty with Stein because the baseball guys did their jobs and stood up to George when they had to (and Boggs helped too, of course). A lot of those guys are now gone or in lesser roles, or have simply let Steinbrenner take back over, and the pattern for acquisitions has steadily devolved to where they throw money at free agents with, at times, a lack of rhyme or reason, or common sense. Stein just needs to be put in his place by the right person. b) Cashman's career? His family?? You really think if he were fired, he wouldn't be able to get a front-office job for another team? He's done a less-than-spectacular job lately, so that would hurt his chances. But if he got fired for trying to make a smart move, or rejecting Steinbrenner's retarded advice, people would see that. He'd rather be a handcuffed GM with the Yankees than an able GM elsewhere, I guess. Unless I'm missing something completely.

And yes, I know he started out terrifically--or did he? You could make the case that the dynasty teams were the teams created by Showalter, Michael, Boggs and Torre, and they faded steadily every year. Now, I could easily be wrong--but it's at least something to think about.
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Postby blankman » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:29 pm

It is far, far too early to call Vazquez a failure
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Postby WharfRat » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:32 pm

blankman wrote:It is far, far too early to call Vazquez a failure


That I agree with--Vazquez didn't have a bad year, he had a bad half year (just the wrong half :-[ )
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Postby TheYanks04 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:35 pm

They would not be talking to the D'backs about RJ for Vaz if they has any confidence in Vaz. He has always been streaky, but if you are Cashman you have to ask yourself this:

Do I

a. trade Vaz and for RJ in some deal and cut my loses/take what I can get.

b. Keep him and hope he does well.

Realizing that if you jkeep him and hios 3 yrs/33 M and he flops in 2005, then you wil get NOTHING for him after that. 33 M gamble to keep him. Is it worth it? Or do you cut bait?
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Postby blankman » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:38 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:They would not be talking to the D'backs about RJ for Vaz if they has any confidence in Vaz. He has always been streaky, but if you are Cashman you have to ask yourself this:

Do I

a. trade Vaz and for RJ in some deal and cut my loses/take what I can get.

b. Keep him and hope he does well.

Realizing that if you jkeep him and hios 3 yrs/33 M and he flops in 2005, then you wil get NOTHING for him after that. 33 M gamble to keep him. Is it worth it? Or do you cut bait?


I take choice b.

Also, they're talking about Vaz AND Posada. I want no part of that for 2-3 years of RJ.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:41 pm

That is D'back wishful thinking.

And I disagree...I did not like the lack of guts. He is a loser IMO. Cut bait and get what you can. Cashman did it with Contreras and unloading 13 M in the process. Why spend 33M on someone you HOPE will do well. Get someone who WILL do well.
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Postby Viper8437 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:46 pm

i find it funny that the yankees are going after milton and leiter
i mean, milton has a great ERA and is the complete opposite of what the current yankees pitchers are like except for maybe one or two
then leiter is the perfect guy
hes able to go deep into innings and give the yankees bullpen the rest they will most likely need next year
;-)
reyes is my homeboy
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Postby blankman » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:53 pm

TheYanks04 wrote:That is D'back wishful thinking.

And I disagree...I did not like the lack of guts. He is a loser IMO. Cut bait and get what you can. Cashman did it with Contreras and unloading 13 M in the process. Why spend 33M on someone you HOPE will do well. Get someone who WILL do well.


I consider it a "lack of guts" to give up on him so early.
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Postby TheYanks04 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:57 pm

33 M is not chump change, even to George. And just why would you as GM gamble 33M of George's money on a potential loser? Lose that bet and you become a former GM. And for what>... like that money can't be spent on someone else?
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