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Soriano - one selfish ball player

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Postby Strasil42 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:25 pm

Zito is God wrote:I never liked Soriano and always thought he was one of the cockiest players today. That bieng said I understand his position, why would you want to give up your position you've been playing (and succeeding at) for years?


thats a stretch.
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Postby WharfRat » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:35 pm

I just wanted to mention that I'd hear about Soriano's apparently selfish side from time to time when he was in the Bronx. Not that he was a bad guy, but sometimes he would let his ego get in the way...so if it's true that he refuses to play OF, it kinda fits from I know. And it wouldn't surprise me if he changes his mind about that, either.
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Postby blankman » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:55 pm

WharfRat wrote:I just wanted to mention that I'd hear about Soriano's apparently selfish side from time to time when he was in the Bronx.


Awfully vaque here. Examples? Sources?
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Postby Madison » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:55 am

No surprise. Soriano did the same thing and said the same thing when he came to Texas. Mike Young volunteered to make the change so there would be no issues in the clubhouse. Not that Soriano really gave him any choice about it.

As to Jeter not moving, I still crack up that the best SS in the league plays 3B for the Yankees. :-b
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Postby Zito is God » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:25 am

Strasil42 wrote:
Zito is God wrote:I never liked Soriano and always thought he was one of the cockiest players today. That bieng said I understand his position, why would you want to give up your position you've been playing (and succeeding at) for years?


thats a stretch.


Let me restate that in other words, HE thought he succeeded at it. He prefers the position and thinks he has enough "value" in order for him to call the shots of where and what he plays. He succeeded at all the offensive categories so that gives him that power as far as most GMs are conserned.
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Postby mikcou » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:41 am

Madison wrote:No surprise. Soriano did the same thing and said the same thing when he came to Texas. Mike Young volunteered to make the change so there would be no issues in the clubhouse. Not that Soriano really gave him any choice about it.

As to Jeter not moving, I still crack up that the best SS in the league plays 3B for the Yankees. :-b


I agree on both points. If Soraino cared about his team he would move. If Jeter is the leader he claims to be, he would move.
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Postby DK » Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:10 am

TheYanks04 wrote:Most amusing. How a Soriano debate turns to a Jeter debate. Like Soriano has EVER been anything but a well below avg 2b?


Until this year (when he moved from the bottom of the cellar to just about average- and somehow slid his way past more deserving candidates into the GG spot), Jeter was one of the worst five fielders in baseball. So this doesn't really hold water.

TheYanks04 wrote:Man is a total hack and anyone who has seen him play 2b knows that. He was brutal at SS. Even worse at 3b and is at best below avg at 2b.


Not true. His career (weighted) Range Factor (the best tool we have for fielding ability), is 4.68 over an average of 4.38. He was above average in every year but 2001. What are you looking at, fielding percentage? I thought everyone knew by now that doesn't matter.

He played SS for 10 games in his career, same for 3B. Not nearly enough of a sample size, but you're probably right. Regardless, who cares how he played at short and third? Does it matter?

TheYanks04 wrote:The reason he does not want to move is simple...as an OF he will not command as much money as a free agent or in arbitration. His numbers amonst OFs would not be elitest. Nor would he be an All Star. This has ZIP to do with his comfort level or love of 2b or anything else.


Really? I wish you'd outlined that in your first post, when that though hadn't come to you yet. Naturally, though, since you know what goes on in Soriano's head, you're absolutely right.

TheYanks04 wrote:It has even less to do with a nonsensical debate as to which position one excellent fielder (AROD) and one above avg one (Jeter) both of whom are making a boat-load of money already should be playing.


Haha!

Sorry, I just laughed out loud.

Jeter, an above-average fielder? Are you kidding me? How many times have we had this debate? Guess what, guys... He's still only average. He had a RF of 4.32 over an average of 4.12, right. However, his RF/9 was under average by 0.10 (4.46 to 4.56). That averages out to .1 above average, which is basically nothing. Throw in the fact that he's been horrid at short for the past six years and you've got what you've always had: a poor fielder.

DK wrote:Would you say Jeter not moving from short to second for A-Rod is the same kind of selfish guy? Interested only in himself?

Just wondering. :-)


I'm still just wondering. :-)
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Postby looptid » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:14 pm

DK wrote:Jeter, an above-average fielder? Are you kidding me? How many times have we had this debate? Guess what, guys... He's still only average. He had a RF of 4.32 over an average of 4.12, right. However, his RF/9 was under average by 0.10 (4.46 to 4.56). That averages out to .1 above average, which is basically nothing. Throw in the fact that he's been horrid at short for the past six years and you've got what you've always had: a poor fielder.


Yeah, but how can you rule out that awesome dive into the stands Jeter made? Clearly, that alone was worthy of an award that claims to be awarded to the best fielder in and over a given season.

I don't think people hate Jeter as much as Yankee fans claim. I think people just respond to inacurate claims about Jeter, such as he was the best defensive SS in the AL this past season, or the John Kruk's of the world saying his leadership makes him the best player in the game today.

They're like the people that say things such as, "The Yankees always win in October." No they don't. They win in every damn month. Teams that win 100+ games during the regular season do well in the post season not because there is something magical or clutch about them, they do well because they're really, really good.
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Postby GameOn » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:02 pm

DK wrote:Not true. His career (weighted) Range Factor (the best tool we have for fielding ability), is 4.68 over an average of 4.38. He was above average in every year but 2001. What are you looking at, fielding percentage? I thought everyone knew by now that doesn't matter.



True his Range Factor is good because he is quick and fast, but the thing is just because he can get to balls doesn't mean that he can make the plays. In fact, when you watch Soriano play 2B he can make some AWESOME plays because his range is so great, but its the plays where a little dribbler is hit to him and he has a brain fart and boots the ball that make you want to beat him with a stick. I don't think anyone will doubt that he has range, but if anything Soriano is the PERFECT example that range isn't everything. In fact, I really think that Soriano can make the tough plays because he just relies on his natural athleticisim and he doesn't have time to think. It is those slow dribblers or balls hit right at him when he either gets nervous or starts thinking too much about it and he messes it up.

I know when he first got to the rangers I saw him make some great plays and I thought "Oh man people don't know what they are talking about saying that he is a bad 2B". Bust after seeing like 10 routine ground ball errors I changed my mind.
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Re: Soriano - one selfish ball player

Postby Lofunzo » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:22 pm

DK wrote:
TheYanks04 wrote:This was posted on Rotoworld:

Second baseman Alfonso Soriano isn't at all interested in switching positions for a new team.
Everyone looking to trade for Soriano seems to want him as an outfielder. "I think if that is the reason that a team gets me, it's going to be a little bit difficult, because I'm not going to give up my position," Soriano said. "I'm not going to pass to another position. I'm going to play second base." Soriano has no trade protection, but if he is dead set against switching positions, no team is going to acquire him and force him to move.




You talk about a guy interested only in his stats and himself.


Would you say Jeter not moving from short to second for A-Rod is the same kind of selfish guy? Interested only in himself?

Just wondering. :)


I don't see anything wrong with either of them although Jeter was never asked. ;-)
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