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Postby slomo007 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:48 pm

j_d_mcnugent wrote:i like edgar for around 8 million. at this point i dont think he is worth more than that. maybe if his 04 numbers were closer to his 03 numbers i would reconsider. supposedly he is looking for something averaging 10-12 a year for 5 years. thats a bit steep considering tejada is making around 12 a year.


I agree with this....3 million isn't a whole lot more to pay for Renteria compared to Guzman, but if you can get Guzman for, say $5 million, as compared to Renteria for $10-11 million, I'd take Guzman in a second.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:02 pm

slomo007 wrote:
LBJackal wrote:Well a Guzman/Young middle infield would be a bit better than Young/Soriano, for defense. Young was a much better 2B than SS. But still, Guzman, even though better defensively than Young at SS, is terrible at defense and offense. I don't think it'd be a good idea to get him. He's a #9 hitter with bad defense, like I already mentioned. He can't get on base, he can't hit for power, he can't play SS. Pretty much all he does is steal bases once in a while, and he's not even very good at that :-P


Guzman's 2004 (regular season) Stats: .274 BA, .309 OBP, .384 SLG, 8 HRs, 10 SB, 5 CS

Renteria's 2004 (regular season) Stats: .287 BA, .327 OBP, .401 SLG, 10 HRs, 17 SB, 11 CS

Guzman's 2004 Salary: $3.275 Million

Renteria's 2004 Salary: $7.25 Million

Call me crazy, but based on this year's stats, I'd take Guzman over Renteria given the large amount of money Renteria is going to require. The Cardinals would be much better off saving the money they would have spent on Edgar and investing in a true Ace, the one thing they don't have.


That was a down year for Renteria. And he was still a lot better. OBA, SLG, OPS the past 3 seasons:

Renteria: .364, .421, .785
Guzman: .303, .379, .682

Renteria is a MUCH better hitter. He can bat at the top of their order and set up the guys behind him to score runs. I think that makes a pretty big difference, and I think they'd rather spend more to have a better team, even if Guzman being $5M cheaper would provide more value. They can make an offer to another SP, but it's not like they need to add more than one. Woody is supposed to be signing for less than last year, Carpenter and Suppan are coming back, Morris' $12.5M is off the books and can be spent on another SP, and they have Haren, Marquis, and Ankiel left for the #5 spot. I don't see a big hole at SP where they'd need to make such a big downgrade of Renteria to Guzman.
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Postby Rkiivs » Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:18 pm

Baseballer02 wrote:Out of the 19 shortstops I have ranked for next season, Guzman is next to last. He gives no production in any way.


Let me guess: Jose Valentin is last?


LBJackal wrote:That was a down year for Renteria. And he was still a lot better. OBA, SLG, OPS the past 3 seasons:

Renteria: .364, .421, .785
Guzman: .303, .379, .682


Yep, I'd take Renteria as the best FA SS out there on the market (that includes over Garciaparra also).
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:10 pm

LBJackal wrote:I'm not sure who follows or believes ZR, but Cristian Guzman isn't nearly as good as Renteria as far as range goes. And he hasn't had an OPS above 700 in the past 3 seasons. I don't think StL wants to replace Renteria with a #9 hitter with bad range. They're probably going to try and get better, and go all the way this year.


I agree. ;-D
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Postby Baseballer02 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:24 pm

Rkiivs wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:Out of the 19 shortstops I have ranked for next season, Guzman is next to last. He gives no production in any way.


Let me guess: Jose Valentin is last?


Not quite, Eckstein is last out of the 19 I ranked. Valentin is 16th.

And although I'm sure most will disagree with me, I've got 7 shortstops ranked ahead of Renteria. :-o
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:26 pm

Baseballer02 wrote:
Rkiivs wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:Out of the 19 shortstops I have ranked for next season, Guzman is next to last. He gives no production in any way.


Let me guess: Jose Valentin is last?


Not quite, Eckstein is last out of the 19 I ranked. Valentin is 16th.

And although I'm sure most will disagree with me, I've got 7 shortstops ranked ahead of Renteria. :-o


Are you talking about your draft list?? If so, I'd like to see your top 10. :-)
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Postby Baseballer02 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:57 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:
Rkiivs wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:Out of the 19 shortstops I have ranked for next season, Guzman is next to last. He gives no production in any way.


Let me guess: Jose Valentin is last?


Not quite, Eckstein is last out of the 19 I ranked. Valentin is 16th.

And although I'm sure most will disagree with me, I've got 7 shortstops ranked ahead of Renteria. :-o


Are you talking about your draft list?? If so, I'd like to see your top 10. :-)


Top 10 shortstops or top 10 overall?
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Postby Mustangs989 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:09 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:
Rkiivs wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:Out of the 19 shortstops I have ranked for next season, Guzman is next to last. He gives no production in any way.


Let me guess: Jose Valentin is last?


Not quite, Eckstein is last out of the 19 I ranked. Valentin is 16th.

And although I'm sure most will disagree with me, I've got 7 shortstops ranked ahead of Renteria. :-o


Are you talking about your draft list?? If so, I'd like to see your top 10. :-)

Me too, I can see Tejada, Jeter, Nomar, M.Young and Guillen over him. Then maybe Furcal but who else? OCab/Rollins/Crosby??
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:24 pm

Baseballer02 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:
Rkiivs wrote:
Baseballer02 wrote:Out of the 19 shortstops I have ranked for next season, Guzman is next to last. He gives no production in any way.


Let me guess: Jose Valentin is last?


Not quite, Eckstein is last out of the 19 I ranked. Valentin is 16th.

And although I'm sure most will disagree with me, I've got 7 shortstops ranked ahead of Renteria. :-o


Are you talking about your draft list?? If so, I'd like to see your top 10. :-)


Top 10 shortstops or top 10 overall?


SS please. ;-D
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:44 am

I'd like to see your SS list too. All I can think of are Tejada, Nomar, Jeter, Young maybe. Who else am I missing? :-?
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