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Pedro is staying in Boston

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Postby Tavish » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:50 pm

slomo007 wrote:If I were the Red Sox, there's NO way I would pay Pedro $13 million unless there are performance clauses in the contract. We all know Pedro can pitch like a $13 million a year pitcher, but it's virtually guaranteed that he won't pitch like a $13 million a year pitcher.

I honestly am surprised that this was the first offer made, I mean for one thing I would have started much lower (around 8 or 9 a year) and then I wouldn't have gotten near 13 (probably around 11 max). Truth be told, I think Pedro is about a $8-9 million/year pitcher, but because of his ability to pitch well in key games, his hate for the Yankees, and his fan base in Boston, I could see going up to $11 or so....but definitely not 13.

Luckily I'm not a Sox fan, so this wouldn't be so bad...just so the Rangers don't go outbidding the Sox by some ridiculous amount like one other contract I can think of in the recent past.

edit: poor word selection.


Pedro has been and can be a dominant ace for a staff. He had an off year in 2004 and was still much better than the league average pitcher. $13 million really isn't that much of a stretch and I would be highly surprised if there isn't 5-6 teams out there willing to pay more than that for him.
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Postby slomo007 » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:13 pm

Tavish wrote:
slomo007 wrote:If I were the Red Sox, there's NO way I would pay Pedro $13 million unless there are performance clauses in the contract. We all know Pedro can pitch like a $13 million a year pitcher, but it's virtually guaranteed that he won't pitch like a $13 million a year pitcher.

I honestly am surprised that this was the first offer made, I mean for one thing I would have started much lower (around 8 or 9 a year) and then I wouldn't have gotten near 13 (probably around 11 max). Truth be told, I think Pedro is about a $8-9 million/year pitcher, but because of his ability to pitch well in key games, his hate for the Yankees, and his fan base in Boston, I could see going up to $11 or so....but definitely not 13.

Luckily I'm not a Sox fan, so this wouldn't be so bad...just so the Rangers don't go outbidding the Sox by some ridiculous amount like one other contract I can think of in the recent past.

edit: poor word selection.


Pedro has been and can be a dominant ace for a staff. He had an off year in 2004 and was still much better than the league average pitcher. $13 million really isn't that much of a stretch and I would be highly surprised if there isn't 5-6 teams out there willing to pay more than that for him.


That's where we just don't agree I guess. IMO, Pedro doesn't have "ace" stuff anymore. Schilling is far and away the "ace" of Boston's staff. If Pedro had 5 extra mph on his fastball, he'd still be an ace, but I don't think this year was too much of a fluke. Overall, he was healthier this year than he has been in a while, so why did he have such a bad year?
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Postby thomasps3 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:40 pm

Yeah, Pedro doesn't have "ace" stuff anymore, however, there are two factors to consider here:

1. Since when does "stuff" dictate the ability to P like an ace? I agree it has a large role, but to totally dismiss craftsmanship would be like tossing Greg Maddux out on his head because he doesn't have "ace stuff" either. Pedro has the competitve spirit of an Orel Hershiser, the control of Maddux, and still, an above average fastball that can at times hit 94+, with a devastating change-up and two other pitches he can throw for strikes with his curve and his slider. Give me that and I'll pay anybody $13m a season. Anybody saying the Red Sox brass should start the bidding at $8M is either out of their mind, or they just don't know what the best FA pitcher in the market will get. D-Lowe, on the other hand, is a total head case who would get eaten up in NY. His psyche is more fragile than a Faberge egg, and he will still get a deal for at LEAST $8M/YR
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Postby slomo007 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:51 pm

thomasps3 wrote:Yeah, Pedro doesn't have "ace" stuff anymore, however, there are two factors to consider here:

1. Since when does "stuff" dictate the ability to P like an ace? I agree it has a large role, but to totally dismiss craftsmanship would be like tossing Greg Maddux out on his head because he doesn't have "ace stuff" either. Pedro has the competitve spirit of an Orel Hershiser, the control of Maddux, and still, an above average fastball that can at times hit 94+, with a devastating change-up and two other pitches he can throw for strikes with his curve and his slider. Give me that and I'll pay anybody $13m a season. Anybody saying the Red Sox brass should start the bidding at $8M is either out of their mind, or they just don't know what the best FA pitcher in the market will get. D-Lowe, on the other hand, is a total head case who would get eaten up in NY. His psyche is more fragile than a Faberge egg, and he will still get a deal for at LEAST $8M/YR


Lowe only made 4.5 million this season, and had a bad season. Do you really think that a strong playoff run and lack of available FA pitchers will mean he makes $8/year? If you're right, and he does make that much, then I agree that Pedro should make $13. However, I don't see Lowe making $8/year.

I could see Lowe going around $6/year and Pedro should be going around $10/year. In my above post, I didn't take the lack of available starters into consideration when I said Pedro is an $8-9/year pitcher at this point in his career.
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Postby thomasps3 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:12 pm

I can see your point, however, I think, if I am correct, that D-Lowe signed his current deal when he was a reliever, before he went out and won 52 games in the last three years. Lowe at $6M a year? I think that is what he is worth, yes, however, in the FA market, players NEVER get what they are worth, they get what the market will bear. If this is the case, do you think Manny would've gotten $20M/year? As good as he is, there are comparable players who make far less.
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Postby slomo007 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:32 pm

thomasps3 wrote:I can see your point, however, I think, if I am correct, that D-Lowe signed his current deal when he was a reliever, before he went out and won 52 games in the last three years. Lowe at $6M a year? I think that is what he is worth, yes, however, in the FA market, players NEVER get what they are worth, they get what the market will bear. If this is the case, do you think Manny would've gotten $20M/year? As good as he is, there are comparable players who make far less.


Great points...no argument here.
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Postby mikcou » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:50 am

slomo007 wrote:
thomasps3 wrote:I can see your point, however, I think, if I am correct, that D-Lowe signed his current deal when he was a reliever, before he went out and won 52 games in the last three years. Lowe at $6M a year? I think that is what he is worth, yes, however, in the FA market, players NEVER get what they are worth, they get what the market will bear. If this is the case, do you think Manny would've gotten $20M/year? As good as he is, there are comparable players who make far less.


Great points...no argument here.


Dont forget about Boras, hell get every single dollar possible
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Postby Jivedude » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:25 am

Speaking of Boras...

Boston Herald wrote:Varitek, Sox hit early snags
By Michael Silverman
Wednesday, November 10, 2004

KEY BISCAYNE, Fla. - The chance of Jason Varitek remaining with the Red Sox took a big nosedive off a high cliff yesterday after his agent, Scott Boras, revealed publicly that he was seeking a five-year deal with a no-trade clause for his client.
The Red Sox do not want to give the 32-year-old Varitek a deal for that long, a club source said, plus the team no longer gives out no-trade clauses. Varitek is believed to be looking for a deal with an average annual value around $10 million. Although there are plenty of Varitek fans and believers in the Red Sox organization, the idea that the owners and general manager Theo Epstein would make a $50 million commitment to a catcher who would be 37 years old at the contract's conclusion and who could not be dealt without his permission seems highly unlikely.

In addition, any no-trade clause the Sox work into a player's contract will automatically kick in a similar clause in Manny Ramirez contract, giving the Sox slugger a similar right.
Boras was unfazed by the club's philosophical opposition to no-trade clauses, citing past examples when owner John Henry owned the Marlins, team president and CEO Larry Lucchino ran the Padres and chairman Tom Werner owned the Padres.
Rather than looking at club rules, said Boras, ``I look at the owners themselves. We looked at what John Henry did for Charles Johnson for five years and a no-trade clause.
``There's Larry Lucchino, who gave (a no-trade) to Phil Nevin and Ryan Klesko and he offered one to Kevin Brown. Tom Werner gave one to Tony Gwynn and Fred McGriff.''
And, as Boras has met and recently spoken with clubs about Varitek, he said ``not a team that's talked to us about Jason Varitek has had any hesitancy about a no-trade clause.''
Boras cited Varitek's concern for his family as a primary factor in seeking a no-trade clause.
``His children are school-age and being in one city for a long time is important for him,'' Boras said. ``Being a Red Sox his whole life, he's deserving'' of being the exception to the team rule.
Boras doesn't believe Varitek's demanding position will prevent teams from making a a five-year commitment.
``I don't think you're going to find a more conditioned athlete in the major leagues,'' he said. ``Look at Carlton Fisk, look at Bob Boone and what they did in their 30s. I think Jason Varitek's going to be around for a long time.''
To underscore Varitek's catching skills, Boras offered a postseason anecdote.
``The night before Game 4 of the World Series, he called and said he didn't think Derek Lowe [stats, news] would give up an earned run,'' Boras said. Varitek was correct. When asked, Boras added that it was Varitek, not Lowe, who ``came up with the game plan.''
Derek Lowe is another Red Sox free agent represented by Boras, who said he was not going to make public the length of contract he is seeking for the sinkerballer because he has not received permission from Lowe to do so.
Boras said he decided to go public with Varitek's because there were ``rumors we want to put to rest'' regarding the catcher's contract demands. Boras later said his remarks referred to reports from the ``electronic media'' that ``we were seeking something of dramatic proportions. He wanted to clear the air. He's right in the mix of what's appropriate for catchers.''
Not surprisingly, Boras had high praise for Lowe's clutch October while downplaying his subpar regular season.
``Derek Lowe has seeded himself as the postseason horse,'' Boras said. ``He's durable - I think he threw 180 pitches in 72 hours (in the ALCS) - he can close and start games. The only question we get asked is about his first half and all the unearned runs he gave up. He led the AL in unearned runs.''
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Postby mikcou » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:44 am

well if that is what Varitek is demanding hell be somewhere else next year.
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Postby Amazinz » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:30 am

Boras and Tek are smoking crack. :-)

I wouldn't worry too much if I was a Sox fan. His demands will come back down to Earth. The Yankees don't need a catcher.
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