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Where do the yankees get all their money?

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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:06 am

LBJackal wrote:If you're saying don't fault the Yankees for doing whats best financially for them, then don't fault the teams who, even if they invested more money, would still lose. There are some teams that don't spend as much as they could, but probably a lot less than you think. Not everybody has the luxury of investing more money leading to getting more profits.

There needs to be a salary floor and cap. Free market is good for real life, but in sports, people actually care if there is parity. In real life Wal-Mart and IKEA can run the show for all I care.


Well, the argument has always been that we need parity because teams like the Yankees spend so much and the other teams can't. Well, there are teams like the Royals who get some nice change from the Yankees and if they are 10 games out in July, it's fire sale time. IMHO, that's wrong and I feel for the fans. I don't see how you can have a really good year 1 year and the next, you're selling off your players. You'd think that the success of the Marlins last year would motivate other teams but it really didn't. If there are teams that lose $$, even with their check from George, then maybe they should sell their teams or move them to a better area.

How about a cap and a floor but not a floor that's too low?? I would hate a cap of $100M and a floor of say $15M. How about we also force teams to use their luxury tax type revenues on their teams. Use it or lose it. You can't afford to pay the floor, then you should sell or move.

I am really sick of teams and fans crying about the Yankees. It is a problem but 1 that wasn't taken care of peoperly during the last labor issues. While I understand why other fans wouldn't be happy, they are within the rules. If you want to say that we can't blame the other teams for using a budget, you can't fault the Yankees for foing their thing. Both are within the rules as currently set.
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:21 am

Lofunzo wrote:If you want to say that we can't blame the other teams for using a budget, you can't fault the Yankees for foing their thing. Both are within the rules as currently set.


Exactly, both are within the rules. So why do you have a problem with teams who don't spend enough to win games, only enough to maximize profit? Maybe the Royals are better off financially by having a firesale then by making a playoff run. I'm sure the fans don't like that, but fans don't like the Yankees having the highest payroll and making the playoffs 10 years in a row either. It works both ways.

Bottom line, the system isn't working for parity. Not at all. I'm all for a salary floor and a salary cap, and as well a luxury tax threshold that is significantly lower than the cap, so teams that are forced to meet the minimum can actually do so.
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Postby wrveres » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:19 am

By Ken Rosenthal - SportingNews wrote:The Empire never rests

The scene: Malio's Steak House, George Steinbrenner's favorite restaurant in Tampa.

The time: 6 p.m., the day after the season ends.

The subject: Torturing the Red Sox in 2005.

In attendance: All of Steinbrenner's "baseball people" -- general manager Brian Cashman; numerous other club officials, plus the Boss' latest crack expert -- one John Samson, a good friend of Steinbrenner's limousine driver and the 2004 champion of Vinny's Fantasy League.

"Let's start with baseball ops, then we'll deal with special ops," the Boss spits out, invoking his favored military language. "Cashman, proceed."

"Boss, we plan to bid on the following free agents: Carlos Beltran, Carl Pavano, Pedro Martinez and Jason Varitek," Cashman begins.

"Good! Good!" Steinbrenner replies. "Beltran first!"

"Of course," Cashman replies. "Here's the problem: Beltran's agent, Scott Boras, might also want us to sign another of his clients, Derek Lowe. It would be sort of like last year, when we threw Boras a bone by signing Travis Lee after he worked with us on getting two of his other players, Alex Rodriguez and Kevin Brown, to waive no-trade clauses."

"Lowe? The basket case?" Steinbrenner barks. "That's the one Red Sox player we don't want! Just tell Boras I'll go nine years on Beltran, and draw the line there!"

"Understood, Boss."

"Now, what about Pedro?"

"Of course, we don't really want him," Cashman says. "But we will express serious interest, panicking Red Sox Nation, infuriating Sox president Larry Lucchino and driving up the price."

Steinbrenner momentarily looks saddened.

"What's wrong, Boss?" club president Randy Levine asks.

"It would make a great Visa commercial. He calls me daddy. I call him son ..." Steinbrenner says, his voice trailing off.

The baseball people sit in silence, careful not to look at one another, lest anyone be caught rolling their eyes.

Cashman passes a computer printout to Steinbrenner showing Martinez's 2004 splits:

On four days' rest: 8-5, 4.77.

On more than four days' rest: 8-4, 2.98.

"Let someone else pay $12 million a year for a guy who turns into a No. 4 starter pitching on normal rest," Cashman says. "We'll just trade for Randy Johnson."

"I like that! Good! Good!" Steinbrenner says. "Now, what about Varitek?"

"Same thing, Boss -- we'll just drive up the price for Boston," Cashman explains. "We'll have Joe Torre call Jorge Posada and tell him not to worry about the headlines -- it will all be for show."

"How do we play it in the press?"

"Oh, that's easy," Cashman replies. "Jorge is 33. We'll say we want to use him less behind the plate. He and Varitek could get at-bats at catcher, first base and DH."

"That will show Lucchino!" Steinbrenner roars with glee, and the table buzzes with excitement, imagining the suffering of the Red Sox president.

Suddenly, Steinbrenner turns grim-faced.

"We need more pitching," he says.

"Pavano," Cashman says, shrugging.

"What's this about him not wanting to come to the Yankees?" Steinbrenner yelps. "He fired Jeter's agent for some yo-yo attorney in Florida! What does he want -- to spend the rest of his life with the Marlins?"

"Evidently, Boss."

"Ridiculous!" Steinbrenner shouts. "Lucchino wants him! I know he wants him! The kid is from Connecticut, for crying out loud!"

Levine rises from his seat, motioning for Steinbrenner to relax.

"Maybe Pavano switched to this guy because the lawyer is charging him less than the standard agent's commission," he says. "If that's the case, we'll eliminate every one of his financial worries. Might take an extra year or two. Might take an extra million or 10. Whatever, we'll get him."

"Good answer!" Steinbrenner replies. "I won't fire you today!"

"Now," Steinbrenner asks, back in grim-faced mode, "what about second base?"

"Miguel Cairo is fine, Boss," Cashman says. "His .763 OPS was only 45 points lower than Alfonso Soriano's, and he actually can play defense."

"Never an All-Star!" Steinbrenner shoots back. "I want All-Stars!"

"Well," Cashman continues. "I know you like Nomar Garciaparra, Boss, but he kills every team he plays for. We could bring back Soriano. We could trade for Ray Durham or Bret Boone. We could try to get Jose Vidro from the Senators, or whoever the heck they are ..."

"Do it!" Steinbrenner barks.

"Which one?"

"Any of 'em!"

Before Cashman can even nod, Steinbrenner is onto his next mission.

"Special ops!" he cries. "Where are my generals? Where are my bankers?"

With that, the baseball people are ushered out of the restaurant, and the next wave of suits files in.

Everyone is seated. The room falls silent.

"The Citgo sign -- done deal?" Steinbrenner says, referring to the famous landmark overlooking Fenway Park.

"Yes," one of the suits replies.

"It's ours? And we don't have to buy Citgo?" Steinbrenner says.

"Yes, the purchase is complete."

"And the inscription?"

"Done, Mr. Steinbrenner. The sign will now say, 'Hit it here, Bucky!' Just as you requested."

"Perfect!" Steinbrenner says as he turns his head. "Now, where is my young friend?"

A beefy Yankees security guard escorts a bespectacled teenager to the table, pulling him by the arm as the kid bops along to his I-Pod. The kid, the son of wealthy attorneys in New Rochelle, N.Y., is a notorious computer hacker.

"Get a haircut, son! And take off those headphones!" Steinbrenner hollers, exasperated.

"Chill, dude," the kid says.

Steinbrenner, ignoring the kid's disrespect, blurts out, "Is the mission accomplished? Have you administered the virus to the Red Sox's beloved computers?"

"Dude, when Bill James turns on his laptop today, the only thing that he'll be able to do is log on to Yankees.com. Same with that Theo dude. And that Lucchino dude. And that John Henry dude, too. I wiped out all of New England, just to be safe."

"Yes!" Steinbrenner shouts, pumping his fist.

With that, the Boss rises from the table, clapping his hands, nodding in satisfaction.

"Let the offseason begin," he says.


;-D I am all for torturing the Sox ;-D
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Postby Dr.DooM » Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:24 am

I'm not a big fan of tight salary caps. The last thing I want is MLB to become the nerfed NFL. Some people like the idea of no dominating teams but I think that's lame and boring. Part of the fun is to watch dynasties rise and fall. There won't be any more "rooting for the underdog" because, well, there won't be any underdogs. Every team will be the same when any team out of nowhere can get lucky and win in any given year. It becomes a crapshoot.
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Postby Madison » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:37 pm

Lmao! :-D :-b :*) That's just way, way too funny WR! ;-D

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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:22 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:If you want to say that we can't blame the other teams for using a budget, you can't fault the Yankees for foing their thing. Both are within the rules as currently set.


Exactly, both are within the rules. So why do you have a problem with teams who don't spend enough to win games, only enough to maximize profit? Maybe the Royals are better off financially by having a firesale then by making a playoff run. I'm sure the fans don't like that, but fans don't like the Yankees having the highest payroll and making the playoffs 10 years in a row either. It works both ways.

Bottom line, the system isn't working for parity. Not at all. I'm all for a salary floor and a salary cap, and as well a luxury tax threshold that is significantly lower than the cap, so teams that are forced to meet the minimum can actually do so.


I just don't like teams that put $$ intended to help their teams in their pockets. I don't mean that they should just spend on FA. They could put it in by improving their scouting if they want to. There are other ways to compete. If you can't win in payroll, then you should look at other ways of doing so. ;-)
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Postby Rkiivs » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:30 pm

The man that can come up with an accurate way to guarantee parity has my vote for Commissioner for life! Unfortunately, our beloved sport of baseball is also a business. Always has been and always will. Remember how the American League was formed?

Me, I think they should with hold the luxury tax split from owners. They shouldn't automatically be entitled to it just because they field a team. It should somehow be used as an incentive to owners who field playoff contenders. It wouldn't be a salve to the issue but would be a start.

Lastly, hopefully nobody here fell for Bud's blue ribbon panel that said only 3 teams were profitable in the late 90's. Riiiiight, I'll believe that the day an owner has to sell a franchise for a lower price then he paid for it.
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Postby ajgnydc722 » Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:10 pm

wrveres wrote:
By Ken Rosenthal - SportingNews wrote:The Empire never rests

The scene: Malio's Steak House, George Steinbrenner's favorite restaurant in Tampa.

The time: 6 p.m., the day after the season ends.

The subject: Torturing the Red Sox in 2005.

In attendance: All of Steinbrenner's "baseball people" -- general manager Brian Cashman; numerous other club officials, plus the Boss' latest crack expert -- one John Samson, a good friend of Steinbrenner's limousine driver and the 2004 champion of Vinny's Fantasy League.

"Let's start with baseball ops, then we'll deal with special ops," the Boss spits out, invoking his favored military language. "Cashman, proceed."

"Boss, we plan to bid on the following free agents: Carlos Beltran, Carl Pavano, Pedro Martinez and Jason Varitek," Cashman begins.

"Good! Good!" Steinbrenner replies. "Beltran first!"

"Of course," Cashman replies. "Here's the problem: Beltran's agent, Scott Boras, might also want us to sign another of his clients, Derek Lowe. It would be sort of like last year, when we threw Boras a bone by signing Travis Lee after he worked with us on getting two of his other players, Alex Rodriguez and Kevin Brown, to waive no-trade clauses."

"Lowe? The basket case?" Steinbrenner barks. "That's the one Red Sox player we don't want! Just tell Boras I'll go nine years on Beltran, and draw the line there!"

"Understood, Boss."

"Now, what about Pedro?"

"Of course, we don't really want him," Cashman says. "But we will express serious interest, panicking Red Sox Nation, infuriating Sox president Larry Lucchino and driving up the price."

Steinbrenner momentarily looks saddened.

"What's wrong, Boss?" club president Randy Levine asks.

"It would make a great Visa commercial. He calls me daddy. I call him son ..." Steinbrenner says, his voice trailing off.

The baseball people sit in silence, careful not to look at one another, lest anyone be caught rolling their eyes.

Cashman passes a computer printout to Steinbrenner showing Martinez's 2004 splits:

On four days' rest: 8-5, 4.77.

On more than four days' rest: 8-4, 2.98.

"Let someone else pay $12 million a year for a guy who turns into a No. 4 starter pitching on normal rest," Cashman says. "We'll just trade for Randy Johnson."

"I like that! Good! Good!" Steinbrenner says. "Now, what about Varitek?"

"Same thing, Boss -- we'll just drive up the price for Boston," Cashman explains. "We'll have Joe Torre call Jorge Posada and tell him not to worry about the headlines -- it will all be for show."

"How do we play it in the press?"

"Oh, that's easy," Cashman replies. "Jorge is 33. We'll say we want to use him less behind the plate. He and Varitek could get at-bats at catcher, first base and DH."

"That will show Lucchino!" Steinbrenner roars with glee, and the table buzzes with excitement, imagining the suffering of the Red Sox president.

Suddenly, Steinbrenner turns grim-faced.

"We need more pitching," he says.

"Pavano," Cashman says, shrugging.

"What's this about him not wanting to come to the Yankees?" Steinbrenner yelps. "He fired Jeter's agent for some yo-yo attorney in Florida! What does he want -- to spend the rest of his life with the Marlins?"

"Evidently, Boss."

"Ridiculous!" Steinbrenner shouts. "Lucchino wants him! I know he wants him! The kid is from Connecticut, for crying out loud!"

Levine rises from his seat, motioning for Steinbrenner to relax.

"Maybe Pavano switched to this guy because the lawyer is charging him less than the standard agent's commission," he says. "If that's the case, we'll eliminate every one of his financial worries. Might take an extra year or two. Might take an extra million or 10. Whatever, we'll get him."

"Good answer!" Steinbrenner replies. "I won't fire you today!"

"Now," Steinbrenner asks, back in grim-faced mode, "what about second base?"

"Miguel Cairo is fine, Boss," Cashman says. "His .763 OPS was only 45 points lower than Alfonso Soriano's, and he actually can play defense."

"Never an All-Star!" Steinbrenner shoots back. "I want All-Stars!"

"Well," Cashman continues. "I know you like Nomar Garciaparra, Boss, but he kills every team he plays for. We could bring back Soriano. We could trade for Ray Durham or Bret Boone. We could try to get Jose Vidro from the Senators, or whoever the heck they are ..."

"Do it!" Steinbrenner barks.

"Which one?"

"Any of 'em!"

Before Cashman can even nod, Steinbrenner is onto his next mission.

"Special ops!" he cries. "Where are my generals? Where are my bankers?"

With that, the baseball people are ushered out of the restaurant, and the next wave of suits files in.

Everyone is seated. The room falls silent.

"The Citgo sign -- done deal?" Steinbrenner says, referring to the famous landmark overlooking Fenway Park.

"Yes," one of the suits replies.

"It's ours? And we don't have to buy Citgo?" Steinbrenner says.

"Yes, the purchase is complete."

"And the inscription?"

"Done, Mr. Steinbrenner. The sign will now say, 'Hit it here, Bucky!' Just as you requested."

"Perfect!" Steinbrenner says as he turns his head. "Now, where is my young friend?"

A beefy Yankees security guard escorts a bespectacled teenager to the table, pulling him by the arm as the kid bops along to his I-Pod. The kid, the son of wealthy attorneys in New Rochelle, N.Y., is a notorious computer hacker.

"Get a haircut, son! And take off those headphones!" Steinbrenner hollers, exasperated.

"Chill, dude," the kid says.

Steinbrenner, ignoring the kid's disrespect, blurts out, "Is the mission accomplished? Have you administered the virus to the Red Sox's beloved computers?"

"Dude, when Bill James turns on his laptop today, the only thing that he'll be able to do is log on to Yankees.com. Same with that Theo dude. And that Lucchino dude. And that John Henry dude, too. I wiped out all of New England, just to be safe."

"Yes!" Steinbrenner shouts, pumping his fist.

With that, the Boss rises from the table, clapping his hands, nodding in satisfaction.

"Let the offseason begin," he says.


;-D I am all for torturing the Sox ;-D


lmao :-b
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Postby Lofunzo » Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:34 pm

That George bit is awesome. ;-D
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Postby LBJackal » Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:39 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
LBJackal wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:If you want to say that we can't blame the other teams for using a budget, you can't fault the Yankees for foing their thing. Both are within the rules as currently set.


Exactly, both are within the rules. So why do you have a problem with teams who don't spend enough to win games, only enough to maximize profit? Maybe the Royals are better off financially by having a firesale then by making a playoff run. I'm sure the fans don't like that, but fans don't like the Yankees having the highest payroll and making the playoffs 10 years in a row either. It works both ways.

Bottom line, the system isn't working for parity. Not at all. I'm all for a salary floor and a salary cap, and as well a luxury tax threshold that is significantly lower than the cap, so teams that are forced to meet the minimum can actually do so.


I just don't like teams that put $$ intended to help their teams in their pockets. I don't mean that they should just spend on FA. They could put it in by improving their scouting if they want to. There are other ways to compete. If you can't win in payroll, then you should look at other ways of doing so. ;-)


I'm sure they'd love to invest in their team and have it benefit them. But if it doesn't make sense financially - that is, even if the extra scouting and money spent ends up helping the team win more games, but it doesn't actually help them financially, I can see them pocketing all the money they can.

Maybe a hard salary cap isn't a great idea, but a salary floor and more luxury tax would be nice. The last thing I want to see is MLB turn out like the NHL, where player salaries are driven so high that the lesser teams are forced to pay more than they can afford if they want to get any decent players. It's nice to see a decline in player salaries (Jeter, A-Rod, and Giambi are making WAY too much) which is a good thing, and part of the reason I lay some of the blame on NHL owners who kept paying the lucrative prices players were asking and then complained that they aren't making money.

It was the owners who were trying to put a winning team on the ice instead of making a profit that led to this lockout. That's why I can't blame MLB teams for not following suit and paying the prices players are demanding. They're doing what's best financially for them, which doesn't lead to entertaining baseball in a lot of cities, but hey, at least most cities still have baseball teams (with the exception of Montreal, which was an absolute mess after 1994).
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