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Postby thetongueofire » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:00 pm

[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]
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Postby Madison » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:11 pm

LBJackal wrote:My argument was specific to this case. Yes, there are things parents can do to have their children taken away. Their kid being late for school is one of them. Not punising them for swearing at their teacher is not one of them.


Not teaching a kid right from wrong is exactly what they look into. Cussing out a teacher is wrong, and I can almost guarantee you that CPS has already started looking into the kid's family about it.

LBJackal wrote:I suggest you hold back personal insults before you know what you're talking about. I should have been more specific, given you're lack of intelligence (that's what we're stooping to now, right? Personal insults?)


I do know what I'm talking about. You obviously don't. You were the one who flew off the handle in the first place. I thought I was being fairly nice (not real nice, but nicer than I could have been) by acting all surprised rather than calling you a name in my original response. When you came back at me, you showed your lack of intelligence (a nice way of putting it) about the entire topic altogether.



You seem to have this habit in threads. You debate a side that you have limited knowledge about, say something that you cannot substantiate, and then get mad when you are called on it. Why not just give the same old stuff a rest and not get this involved when you don't understand the topic that's being discussed? I know it's not just with me either. I've seen you act this way in several threads with several people. Not sure why you can't seem to back off a topic once it goes beyond what you know and don't know. Oh well. :-°
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Postby Madison » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:17 pm

thetongueofire wrote:these are also laws ;-D


Yes, I've seen quite a few of those lists. Most are funny. ;-)

I see your point, but the bottom line to this whole thing is what do you do with a 17 year old kid that has not been taught proper respect and does not have the ability to learn it on his own?

Suspension from school? Worthless. The kid doesn't want to be there, so it's no loss to him.

Community service? I've never known anyone to complain about their community service, say it was hard, it was a pain, etc. Almost everyone I've ever talked to got out of it somehow. IE: Lo's post about it earlier in this thread. Community service isn't a punishment.

So what do you do to correct the problem and teach the child the manners that he should have already been taught?

Why not put him in jail (not a prison) with Barney Fife for 30 days? It's really not that big of a deal and it will get the point across. What's the harm in that? He won't be hurt, killed, hungry, etc. No harm other than he's under lock and key for 30 days. Why is that such a problem?
Last edited by Madison on Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:17 pm

Back off? Don't think so. I know what I'm talking about, and in this situation, the incident we're talking about does not give CPS to right to take action against the parents. They may very well investigate to see if they HAVE done something, or neglected to do something, that would warrant the kid being taken away.

Sometimes you think you know everything... I'm well aware of the problems with kids being out of control. I definately think something needs to be done. In lots of cases, kids should be taken away. In this case, based on solely this instance; no. Keep your assumptions to yourself until you have something to back them up.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:19 pm

Jackal, I think that you have lost this one.

Parents are held responsible for their children and held up to an objective standard. In Ontario parents are responsible for the damage done to property or theft by their children under the Parental responsibility Act

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Stat ... 0p04_e.htm

2. (1) Where a child takes, damages or destroys property, an owner or a person entitled to possession of the property may bring an action in the Small Claims Court against a parent of the child to recover damages, not in excess of the monetary jurisdiction of the Small Claims Court,

(a) for loss of or damage to the property suffered as a result of the activity of the child; and

(b) for economic loss suffered as a consequence of that loss of or damage to property. 2000, c. 4, s. 2 (1).


Also people can go to jail for cursing for a ton of reasons. Uttering threats, hate crimes etc.. are all punishable by imprisonment.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:28 pm

Madison wrote:Why not put him in jail (not a prison) with Barney Fife for 30 days? It's really not that big of a deal and it will get the point across. What's the harm in that? He won't be hurt, killed, hungry, etc. No harm other than he's under lock and key for 30 days. Why is that such a problem?


First of all, sending a 17 year old kid to jail is far from a sure thing for straightening them out. I knew 3 people in high school who were in jail when they were 17. One is still there and he's almost 21, one is a crackhead and I'm not sure if he's still alive (wasn't looking too good when I saw him last year), and the other is in jail for killing a guy I went to school with for 13 years. Yes it helps in some cases, but it can also send kids down the wrong path. It is not a simple solution like you make it out to be. If more attention was given to the kids instead of tossing them in jail when they were 16 and 17, would they have turned out differently? Who knows.

All I'm saying is don't be so quick to throw kids in jail for swearing. There are other ways to discipline them, and if parents don't take that intiative when a kid does something like that, there is not much you can do. If it continues to happen, then the parents aren't fit to have custody, so take the kids away. My point was you can't take every kid who swears at his teacher and throw him in jail.
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Postby Madison » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:29 pm

LBJackal wrote:Back off? Don't think so. I know what I'm talking about, and in this situation, the incident we're talking about does not give CPS to right to take action against the parents. They may very well investigate to see if they HAVE done something, or neglected to do something, that would warrant the kid being taken away.

Sometimes you think you know everything... I'm well aware of the problems with kids being out of control. I definately think something needs to be done. In lots of cases, kids should be taken away. In this case, based on solely this instance; no. Keep your assumptions to yourself until you have something to back them up.


Where did I say he WOULD be taken away? I said the would "look into it". Who's making assumptions now?

As to backing up my opinions, that's quite funny. It's known all over the Cafe' that you cannot back up most anything you say with facts. You lose every one of these types of discussions no matter who they are with because of comments like:

LBJackal wrote:he should be punished by his parents. If they don't punish him, that's too bad. What can you do?


That one. There is absolutely zero defense for it. It's wrong, and so far off base it's in another stadium. I'm still amazed you keep opening the door for such ridicule when it's happened so many times already.

Anyway, enough of these kiddie games. You want to bring some facts to the table as to why the kid shouldn't go to jail, feel free. Want to bring more unsubstantiated and uninformed claims, I could care less. :-°
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:32 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:Jackal, I think that you have lost this one.

Parents are held responsible for their children and held up to an objective standard. In Ontario parents are responsible for the damage done to property or theft by their children under the Parental responsibility Act

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Stat ... 0p04_e.htm

2. (1) Where a child takes, damages or destroys property, an owner or a person entitled to possession of the property may bring an action in the Small Claims Court against a parent of the child to recover damages, not in excess of the monetary jurisdiction of the Small Claims Court,

(a) for loss of or damage to the property suffered as a result of the activity of the child; and

(b) for economic loss suffered as a consequence of that loss of or damage to property. 2000, c. 4, s. 2 (1).


Also people can go to jail for cursing for a ton of reasons. Uttering threats, hate crimes etc.. are all punishable by imprisonment.


I don't think the kid did any of the things you just listed. And I wrote more in my previous post so I won't continue here.
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Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:41 pm

LBJackal wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:Jackal, I think that you have lost this one.

Parents are held responsible for their children and held up to an objective standard. In Ontario parents are responsible for the damage done to property or theft by their children under the Parental responsibility Act

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Stat ... 0p04_e.htm

2. (1) Where a child takes, damages or destroys property, an owner or a person entitled to possession of the property may bring an action in the Small Claims Court against a parent of the child to recover damages, not in excess of the monetary jurisdiction of the Small Claims Court,

(a) for loss of or damage to the property suffered as a result of the activity of the child; and

(b) for economic loss suffered as a consequence of that loss of or damage to property. 2000, c. 4, s. 2 (1).


Also people can go to jail for cursing for a ton of reasons. Uttering threats, hate crimes etc.. are all punishable by imprisonment.


I don't think the kid did any of the things you just listed. And I wrote more in my previous post so I won't continue here.


I didn't say that he said any of those things. My point is that when you say:

he should be punished by his parents. If they don't punish him, that's too bad. What can you do?


There are a lot of things that you can do, including holding the parents responsible for what the kid did. And we don't know what the kid did so it is very possible that he deserves to go to jail.

IMO this whole debate, even though it's fun to read, serves no purpose because we don't know what the kid said.

If he said "F*** off" then he shouldn't be sent to jail.
If he threatened or incited violence etc, then these are crimes and he is being jailed for those crimes and not for cussing.

My point is, and I said it earlier, is that you cannot trust reporters. There is a lot more to this story but the headline reads "Kid jailed for swearing" because that is more interesting.
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Postby Fireball Express » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:43 pm

I'm not sure what the laws are in NC, but if the student threatened the teacher in any way, especially if the tone was violent, it could be considered Menacing. Which is a misdemeanor punishable by jail time.
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