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Postby perlick29 » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:22 pm

anyone else thing crazypooja changed his name to JRM? :-b
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Postby thetongueofire » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:38 pm

perlick29 wrote:anyone else thing crazypooja changed his name to JRM? :-b


lol but what would account from the left wing to right wing transformation ?

and imo gender and age along with racial discrimination are wrong because they are totally arbritary. i would rather judge the person on what she/he actually is, not their age, race or anything else but that's just me. ;-D
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:20 am

Well that's an opinion I can respect. At least you aren't contradicting yourself.

I'm sick of the age and gender discrimination for car insurance, but the second anybody suggests being extra careful with Arabs boarding airplanes, it's all of a sudden a horrible thing that we should be ashamed of.
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:46 pm

LBJackal wrote:Well that's an opinion I can respect. At least you aren't contradicting yourself.

I'm sick of the age and gender discrimination for car insurance, but the second anybody suggests being extra careful with Arabs boarding airplanes, it's all of a sudden a horrible thing that we should be ashamed of.


It really is a fine line. Racial discrimination is a touchy subject as well. I am all for equal rights for all people, including minorities and women. That said, keep it equal. I don't like discriminating against people because of race or gender but I also hate the other side. There are numerous cases of people getting jobs because they are a minority. If they are equally or better qualified, fine. If they are not, then I don't like it. Football coaches are a good example. People complain about how there are so many black players in the NFL yet so few black coaches. That is a shame but they need to look at the problem. I guarantee you that if a purple person could win games, they would be hired. It starts at the HS and college level. I forget the number but there are less than 10 black coaches in D1A college programs. Where are these NFL coaches developed?? Most from the college ranks to NFL assistants to NFL head coaches. If there is no coaching farm system, where will they come from??

As for age, it is a little more difficult. If I am writing insurance policies, it's hard not to look at age. Would you feel as comfortable writing an auto insurance policy for someone who just got their license as compared to a 30-year old?? How about an 80-year old?? Life insurance?? Who gets the better rate?? A 30-year old or an 80-year old?? You get the point. I don't like discrimination but I do like common sense.
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Postby JRM4833 » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:01 pm

perlick29 wrote:anyone else thing crazypooja changed his name to JRM? :-b


Ah that Crazypooja must be one cool guy. Don't know him but that's a winning endorsement if I've ever seen one. :-b
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Postby Lofunzo » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:12 pm

JRM4833 wrote:
perlick29 wrote:anyone else thing crazypooja changed his name to JRM? :-b


Ah that Crazypooja must be one cool guy. Don't know him but that's a winning endorsement if I've ever seen one. :-b


You must have never met him. :-b

Now, go post us some new games. :-)
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:24 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
LBJackal wrote:Well that's an opinion I can respect. At least you aren't contradicting yourself.

I'm sick of the age and gender discrimination for car insurance, but the second anybody suggests being extra careful with Arabs boarding airplanes, it's all of a sudden a horrible thing that we should be ashamed of.


It really is a fine line. Racial discrimination is a touchy subject as well. I am all for equal rights for all people, including minorities and women. That said, keep it equal. I don't like discriminating against people because of race or gender but I also hate the other side. There are numerous cases of people getting jobs because they are a minority. If they are equally or better qualified, fine. If they are not, then I don't like it. Football coaches are a good example. People complain about how there are so many black players in the NFL yet so few black coaches. That is a shame but they need to look at the problem. I guarantee you that if a purple person could win games, they would be hired. It starts at the HS and college level. I forget the number but there are less than 10 black coaches in D1A college programs. Where are these NFL coaches developed?? Most from the college ranks to NFL assistants to NFL head coaches. If there is no coaching farm system, where will they come from??

As for age, it is a little more difficult. If I am writing insurance policies, it's hard not to look at age. Would you feel as comfortable writing an auto insurance policy for someone who just got their license as compared to a 30-year old?? How about an 80-year old?? Life insurance?? Who gets the better rate?? A 30-year old or an 80-year old?? You get the point. I don't like discrimination but I do like common sense.


Yeah, it's useful for insurance companies. That was the first example I used. But if purple people are at the same risk as teenagers, and green people are at the same risk as 30 year olds, is it OK to raise the price for teenagers, but not for purple people? That's where I see a contradiction.

And yeah, he must have never seen CrazyPooja. To give you an idea JRM, he's more liberal than Michael Moore. Still think it's a winning endorsement? :-b
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Postby thetongueofire » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:54 pm

i am also againt affirmative action in it's current form. it's just more of the problem it was supposed to solve. i'd rather have affirmative action be based solely on financial, physical or other disablilities etc. wherevever it's appropriately applicable.

the thing with racial profiling (using example of Arab looking people) is that you dont know if a person is actually a terrorist or not. the only reason you would think he is a terrorist is because of his appearance, giving birth to preconcieved notions that are totally wrong imo. and likewise, in case of health insurance, the cost should be based on a person's medical record not age. looking at someone's medical record would give you a much better idea about that person's health than just his age.
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Postby LBJackal » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:04 pm

thetongueofire wrote:i am also againt affirmative action in it's current form. it's just more of the problem it was supposed to solve. i'd rather have affirmative action be based solely on financial, physical or other disablilities etc. wherevever it's appropriately applicable.

the thing with racial profiling (using example of Arab looking people) is that you dont know if a person is actually a terrorist or not. the only reason you would think he is a terrorist is because of his appearance, giving birth to preconcieved notions that are totally wrong imo. and likewise, in case of health insurance, the cost should be based on a person's medical record not age. looking at someone's medical record would give you a much better idea about that person's health than just his age.


Can't agree with much of this... affirmative action is wrong because it gives jobs to people who are less qualified. And the goal is to avoid racism, but this promotes it IMO.

And as for people looking like terrorists, and not knowing for sure, the point is, you'd probably want to know for sure. If you had a budget of $100 for passenger screening of 100 people, would you rather use 1% of your budget on each person, or 1.5% on the 50 considered the highest risks, and 0.5% on the 50 that seem the lowest risk? A rough example, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but I believe racial profiling does have some merit to it.

And as for looking at people's health instead of their age when determining their cost of health care, would you give a healthy 70 year old man the same price as a healthy 30 year old man? You can't deny that age, gender, and racial profiling all accomplish the goal of making the best decisions on who to sell insurance to, who to keep an eye on while they're in your convenience store, etc. My point is why are some forms of discrimination OK but others are not?
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Postby Rkiivs » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:52 pm

Wow, did my post help spark this discussion? Let me start by saying that I thank JRM for his response and that I'm glad he didn't post it with ill intent. However, one of the characteristics in racial discrimination is that the intent is irrelevant, what matters is the effect it has on people. Food for thought.

From the discussion here (which I'm glad to see happening), it's obvious that racial & ethnic issues and relations are complex issues. The legacy of racism in American society has too strong a grip to be cured in my generation. But this does not mean I will give up trying to raise awareness. I'm realistic enough to know I'm not going to change the world but I'll try to make a change in my world. The cafe here is a part of my world. Even if the only action here is open discussion then that would be a start because it means people are thinking about it. If you think about it then hopefully you'll act on it. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "Everybody can be great, because everybody can serve."

Lofunzo/LBJ, your points on affirmative action struck me as relevant. We should not assume that all minority citizens are disenfranchised somehow so therefore we must make special allowances for them. In education, affirmative action does double damage. It could be interpreted to imply that those students are not capable of achieving success on their own and it holds back deserving students from success. It could be viewed as a challenge to the 14th Amendment, guaranteeing all citizens equal protection under the law (although, the Supreme Court has yet to agree with me ;~)). The intentions of affirmative action are good but, as noted earlier in the thread, I'm not sold on it's current form. One of thetougueofire's suggestions sound reasonable to me: weighing needs on a purely financial basis would be more equitable.
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