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Why are the same managers recycled over and over?

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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:14 am

Strasil42 wrote:
Rico The Retard wrote:The Yanks are just Steinbrenner and his money, they got nothing to do with their managing


Damn yankees and their money. Makes me wonder whos 2nd on the payroll and how many championships theyve won.


LOL.

Brings me to another point and I will post it here because this thread is still going. I love Torre for what he's done but I had a discussion with a friend of mine about Torre's impact over the years. During the discussion, he mentioned that Torre was like Phil Jackson. I agree to a point. There are major differences between managing a 12 man roster and a 25 man roster. Other than that, they are similar. Both of their main traits are managing people. They both had high ego teams that they had to lead. While I think that a monkey could have guided half of those Bulls teams to a title, Jackson's main quality was molding those guys into a unit. Torre has a great task, IMHO. Twice the players and a different pitcher each night. I definitely think that he had a big impact on their success and to think that Buck could have done the same thing over the past 9 years is naive at best. I won't put him at legendary status but he is 1 of the best managers of recent history. :-)
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Postby GiantFan666 » Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:20 am

ATECH wrote:Come on roadrunner. Is Pedrique a name you think of with the rehashing of managers? I think not. Pedrique was just a 3rd base coach who was put in for mop up duty for another rehashed manager Brenly.


Brenly isn't exactly a "re-hash" due to the fact that he's never managed another big-league team other than the d-backs...

I also agree with Lofunzo with his comments comparing Torre to Phil Jackson... Its like being the manager of Van Halen... but having to deal w/ 4 David Lee Roths...
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Postby rlee » Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:31 pm

Baseball is not the only sport that does this. Football does as well, and perhaps the worst sport for cycling retreads is basketball. When was the last time they had a "rookie" coach?
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:55 pm

rlee wrote:Baseball is not the only sport that does this. Football does as well, and perhaps the worst sport for cycling retreads is basketball. When was the last time they had a "rookie" coach?


I know what you mean by the amount of retreads in the NBA but what do you mean by rookie coaches?? Do you mean guys hired with no prior NBA head coaching experience?? If so, there are a bunch that are coaching now in their first jobs. :-?
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Postby ATECH » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:32 pm

rlee wrote:Baseball is not the only sport that does this. Football does as well, and perhaps the worst sport for cycling retreads is basketball. When was the last time they had a "rookie" coach?





How about Mike Woodson, Mike Montgomery, Stan Van Gundy, Eric Musselman, Terry Porter, Lawrence Frank? All new coaches in 03 or 04.
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:50 pm

ATECH wrote:Come on roadrunner. Is Pedrique a name you think of with the rehashing of managers? I think not. Pedrique was just a 3rd base coach who was put in for mop up duty for another rehashed manager Brenly.


The names I am talking about are D. Baylor, J. Williams, B.Martinez, L. Bowa, T. Francona, G. Little, B. Valentine, J. Manuel.
I like how you didnt include Phil Garner, who failed twice, and then took a broke and beaten team to the playoffs.
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Postby DK » Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:08 pm

ATECH wrote:
rlee wrote:Baseball is not the only sport that does this. Football does as well, and perhaps the worst sport for cycling retreads is basketball. When was the last time they had a "rookie" coach?





How about Mike Woodson, Mike Montgomery, Stan Van Gundy, Eric Musselman, Terry Porter, Lawrence Frank? All new coaches in 03 or 04.


Frank being a very good one, might I add. ;D
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Postby CubsFan7724 » Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:25 pm

Stan Van Gundy looks like Ron Jeremy :-D
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Postby thetongueofire » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:49 pm

Surfs up wrote:Red Sox fans Don't cry about all the money the Yankees spend. You aren't far behind.


Red Sox payroll is 45% lower than the Yankees. of course, the difference in payrolls isnt that big. ;-D

on the Torre issue, i feel that he's a good manager and he's a part of the Yankees success, but not nearly as much as Boy George's money or the players themselves. to say that Torre has been "huge" i think is totally messed up cos i dont think ANY manager can make a huge difference in the long run. it's not the manager, but the players who go out on the field and win games and it's the money and that gets you good players. of course, you have to be careful not to blow away the money but money usually helps a ton (unless youre as boneheaded as the Mets).
[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]
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Postby SaintsOfTheDiamond » Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:03 pm

thetongueofire wrote:
Surfs up wrote:Red Sox fans Don't cry about all the money the Yankees spend. You aren't far behind.


Red Sox payroll is 45% lower than the Yankees. of course, the difference in payrolls isnt that big. ;-D

on the Torre issue, i feel that he's a good manager and he's a part of the Yankees success, but not nearly as much as Boy George's money or the players themselves. to say that Torre has been "huge" i think is totally messed up cos i dont think ANY manager can make a huge difference in the long run. it's not the manager, but the players who go out on the field and win games and it's the money and that gets you good players. of course, you have to be careful not to blow away the money but money usually helps a ton (unless youre as boneheaded as the Mets).


I agree with you about managers not meaning that much, but how do you justify situations like Houston where a managerial change preceded their tremendous run? Coincidence? I'm not going to give a manager all of the credit, but a new manager can come in and change the attitude/dynamic of a clubhouse. I don't know how long lasting such an effect is, but that appears to be the case in Houston, at least from the outside. :-?
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