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Postby LCBOY » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:26 pm

mojowitt wrote:Okay, here's an arguement for Beltre. The MVP is supposed to go to the most valueable player, not necessarily the BEST player. So when looking at a player's value to his team, Beltre stacks up just as well if not better than Bonds. Lets look at the indivdual stats first:

Bonds Beltre

HR 43 48
RBI 101 121
Runs 129 104
OPS 1.422 1.017

Slight edge to Bonds, but not overwhelming. Now, lets see how much they meant to their team in terms of % of total team production. Bonds hit 23.4% of SF's Homers, scored 15.1% of their runs and had 12.5% of their RBI. In contrast, Beltre had 23.6% of LA's Homers, 13.6% of their runs and 16.%% of their RBIs. This shows that beltre was responsable for more of his team's production and had less "support". You can talk about Bonds' lack of opportunity, and its a valid excuse for his lower production than Beltre, but that doesnt translate to "value" when talking MVP. Beltre carried LA MORE than Barry carried SF. Since LA is in the post-season and would have been worse off than a Barryless SF, I'd give my vote to Beltre. Thats the best I can do as far as an arguement against the best hitter of all time...


Cool, the Stat Game!

Run Created
Bonds 185
Beltre 135


RC/27
Bonds 20.21
Beltre 8.68

OBP
Bonds .609
Beltre .388

SLG%
Bonds .812
Beltre .629

Isolated Power
Bonds .450
Beltre .294

Bond's OBP almost matched Beltre's SLG%!! That alone should end any arguement for Beltre.


Bonds hit 23.4% of SF's Homers, scored 15.1% of their runs and had 12.5% of their RBI. In contrast, Beltre had 23.6% of LA's Homers, 13.6% of their runs and 16.%% of their RBIs. This shows that beltre was responsable for more of his team's production and had less "support"


Not sure what this statement proves?

You convienently forgot to mention that Bonds had 373 ABs while Betre had 598 ABs! So Bonds basically matched Beltre's production in 225 fewer ABs.
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Postby Bloody Nipples » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:51 pm

ajgnydc722 wrote:San Fran didn't even make the postseason. And who were the Giants eliminated by? Adrian Beltre and his Dodgers. That's why I believe Beltre should recieve just as much MVP consideration as Bonds.


I agree with your "devil's advocacy," and I definitely would say that if Bonds were retired or in the AL Beltre should get the MVP. He has had an MVP caliber season. It just turns out that Bonds had a better season.

With respect to the above quote, Beltre went 1-22 in the final 6 games of the year. Now thats leadership in the clutch! ;-7
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Postby thetongueofire » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:54 pm

Bonds OPS- Beltre's OPS= .405.

ok now get this... Beltre's OPS- Rey Sanchez's OPS= .403. :-D

and what about win shares ???? Bonds- 53. Beltre- 36. Bonds has 20 % of his team's WS (yep ONE GUY with one-fifths of his team's win shares). Beltre has 12.5 % of his team's WS.
[size=10]Manny Ramirez....$20 million
Pedro Martinez....$17.5 million
Curt Schilling...$12 million (and a $2 million bonus)
Never hearing a Yankee fan chant 1918 again...priceless. [/size]
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